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Old 06-22-2011, 05:20 PM
 
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Witnessing the debate over illegals in this country, I've noticed a pattern among the most ardent pro-illegal supporters. They tend to be lawyers, artists, journalists, ministers, academics, etc. etc. etc.

What's wrong with that? You might ask.

Easy. None of these truly vocal people hold jobs that would be threatened by an illegal immigrant, unlike a factory worker, a construction worker, a day laborer, a housekeeper in a hotel or any number of other blue-collar jobs. Just as importantly, none of those people will face the competitive downward pressure that an illegal will place on wages in blue-collar jobs. After all, if you have a large pool of workers out there chasing a finite number of jobs, then wages get pushed down. It's the law of supply and demand. It's Economics 101.

So essentially, these people indulge in the luxury of saying pious nonsense and feeling self-righteous, knowing that it won't effect them at all.

Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves.

 
Old 06-22-2011, 05:25 PM
 
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This is an interesting point. The people who oppose such immigration are much more likely to be out-competed by illegal immigrants who are either better at the jobs the opponents hold or offering to do the job for less.
 
Old 06-22-2011, 05:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
This is an interesting point. The people who oppose such immigration are much more likely to be out-competed by illegal immigrants who are either better at the jobs the opponents hold or offering to do the job for less.
Absolutely. A few weeks ago, I was on a construction site for a large apartment complex. I noticed that every single worker on that site was Latino. Knowing people in the construction biz, I've heard a few of them speak pretty candidly on the hiring of illegals. The hourly wage difference is sizable, a difference of several dollars an hour.

So with all that preening self-righteousness, the pro-illegals never think for a skinny minute that they might also be supporting the impoverishment of working class American families. I bet all those people who mewl about stagnant wages in this country never consider that.
 
Old 06-22-2011, 05:36 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Absolutely. A few weeks ago, I was on a construction site for a large apartment complex. I noticed that every single worker on that site was Latino. Knowing people in the construction biz, I've heard a few of them speak pretty candidly on the hiring of illegals. The hourly wage difference is sizable, a difference of several dollars an hour.

So with all that preening self-righteousness, the pro-illegals never think for a skinny minute that they might also be supporting the impoverishment of working class American families. I bet all those people who mewl about stagnant wages in this country never consider that.
It's true. When there is one person who offers to do a job, and then another offers to do it less, or do it better, the latter person will almost always get the job.

Now you believe this is hurting the economy, correct?
 
Old 06-22-2011, 05:38 PM
 
192 posts, read 91,366 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Absolutely. A few weeks ago, I was on a construction site for a large apartment complex. I noticed that every single worker on that site was Latino. Knowing people in the construction biz, I've heard a few of them speak pretty candidly on the hiring of illegals. The hourly wage difference is sizable, a difference of several dollars an hour.

So with all that preening self-righteousness, the pro-illegals never think for a skinny minute that they might also be supporting the impoverishment of working class American families. I bet all those people who mewl about stagnant wages in this country never consider that.
If I, as a citizen, offer to do a job for $10/hr that you're only willing to do for $11/hr, and I do better work than you, have I stolen your job? Am I "supporting the impoverishment of working class American families?"
 
Old 06-22-2011, 05:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
It's true. When there is one person who offers to do a job, and then another offers to do it less, or do it better, the latter person will almost always get the job.

Now you believe this is hurting the economy, correct?
Well, it certainly can't be helping. And it certainly can't be helping the lot of the 9.3% of Americans who are unemployed and the additional 9% or so who are underemployed in part-time jobs.

What's more, that statistic doesn't even measure what even fully employed people in those professions might be underpaid because of the increased competition from illegals.
 
Old 06-22-2011, 05:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, it certainly can't be helping. And it certainly can't be helping the lot of the 9.3% of Americans who are unemployed and the additional 9% or so who are underemployed in part-time jobs.

What's more, that statistic doesn't even measure what even fully employed people in those professions might be underpaid because of the increased competition from illegals.
Becoming a lawyer requires extensive training that the average middle class person doesn't have.

How much do you think it hurts middle class families that you can't become a lawyer without any training at all? Clearly it must hurt a little.
 
Old 06-22-2011, 05:45 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,202,743 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie47 View Post
If I, as a citizen, offer to do a job for $10/hr that you're only willing to do for $11/hr, and I do better work than you, have I stolen your job? Am I "supporting the impoverishment of working class American families?"
A spurious argument. Because you, an American citizen, have a legal right to be here.

Further, if you look at this from a macro standpoint, the argument becomes even more compelling. Because, as I said earlier, the more laborers there are to fill a limited number of jobs, it is almost certain there will be downward price pressure.

Estimates vary, but a lot of estimates seem to peg illegals in the United States at 12 million. Let's assume that 10 million of them work. Meanwhile, the number of unemployed American citizens is around 14 million.

A small percentage of illegals are doing farm work. It's more likely that they'll be working in factories and on construction sites, which used to be the mainstay of prosperous blue-collar families.
 
Old 06-22-2011, 05:47 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
This is an interesting point. The people who oppose such immigration are much more likely to be out-competed by illegal immigrants who are either better at the jobs the opponents hold or offering to do the job for less.
Better, no. Cheaper, yes. What part of "employers are breaking the law by hiring illegal aliens" don't you get? So employers and illegal employees should just be able to hire and work illegally in this country regardless of our laws?
 
Old 06-22-2011, 05:48 PM
 
28,906 posts, read 45,202,743 times
Reputation: 45815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Becoming a lawyer requires extensive training that the average middle class person doesn't have.

How much do you think it hurts middle class families that you can't become a lawyer without any training at all? Clearly it must hurt a little.
My point is that there is a clear barrier to entry for becoming a lawyer. No such barrier to entry exists on a factory floor or to drive a Bobcat around a construction site.

So the lawyer, trusting in his own job security, can make his pronouncements on the subject all day, knowing that he can't be touched.
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