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Old 06-26-2011, 06:02 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,513 times
Reputation: 89

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Facts are not stereotypes. One study does not prove much of anything let alone refute common sense.
You haven't posted a fact or provided a link to either 1) back any of your claims or 2) refute anything in that study. Thanks for the huge LOL at the bolded though. It's just common sense they are a drain right? Screw the facts right? bwahahahahah

The funny thing is I can provide other studies that say pretty much the same thing. Complete with links to their sources the information is derived from. Virtually all of the economists agree they are a net benefit being here. The ones that don't seem to tie to weird organizations with agendas like preserving the white race, etc.

 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:22 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,389,743 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Of course, and I would have no trouble with a system through which an underage prodigy could establish his or her ability to say, sign a lease.
When they are not being dragged there.

We keep hearing that they have no other choice but to come here so the verb seems quite appropriate.

Quote:
I disagree with the last part of this, because there is a difference between a chaotic open border system where no one can keep track of those coming in and a system where almost anyone can enter, but to do so you must go through a relatively simple process that notifies authorities of your presence and so forth.
The chaos will only increase as literally a billion people come here. Why would you assume otherwise? We had an amnesty. All it did was make the problem worse.

Quote:
Re: the first part of this, these aren't really "urban planning" problems in the specific sense, which is what I was asking about. Who is paying for their education? Well, it depends, but anyone paying property taxes and income taxes of any kind is at least contributing.
Low skilled high school drop outs working for very little money are not contributing anywhere near the costs of their children's education. Why should Americans be forced to? How high should our property taxes go to finance the education of foreign nationals?

Please give me a number.

Quote:
I agree they should be able to be insured? I assume you don't actually want that, but obviously I believe that insurance companies should be able to make offers to anyone they please within reason (meaning, anyone who can understand the contract reasonably well).
They are insured. Over half of illegals are Mexican. Mexico has national health insurance. I know you're not supposed to point that out but it just the truth. Why should someone get another health insurance plan? And how are people making such little money going to pay for their health costs.

Demand health care for illegals and you make the costs of their employment rise thus making them less attractive workers and ending the advantage they allegedly provide for employers and taxpayers.

Quote:
Can you find one instance of someone saying you should not have the right to voice your opinion, seriously? Not like, reporting you to a mod (lol), I mean like actually challenging your right to free speech on this issue. If someone has done that, I'll go ahead and say in advance that they are an idiot/
Huddled Masses keeps threatening to. Not much of way to make his point IMO but that's his sad choice. Pro law enforcement people routinely get pilloried in the press as racists and xenophobes.

Quote:
Totally agree with the essence of your first sarcastic sentences. Yes, anyone who wants to work here should be able to, and any employer should be free to accept.
Well then enjoy a lowered standard of living and higher taxes as our jobs get imported and exported. I will remain opposed as do most Americans.

Quote:
No, they will not be paying higher taxes or enduring a lower standard of living (do you seriously have to trot out these things you KNOW we "disagree" on? At the most you know I will say I don't think that is the case).
What do you think will happen when you invite lots of low skilled people who don't speak English and don't have an education? Our own low skilled natives have literally seen their incomes fall, death rates increase and neighborhoods crumble.

Why do think imported poverty will fare any better?

Quote:
Americans DO have economic interests, and I think the government should even step in to protect them at times. And if they wanted to travel to China and do some business, I'd prefer that China erect as few barriers to that as is possible.
If the Chinese had an elected and accountable government (which they don't) I would prefer to respect them not ask to do their jobs for less.

Quote:
Is this seriously? If you think our low wage workers are lacking education, that's just silly. Here's some basics for them: go buy an economics textbook, read the first three chapters, and then go offer an employer to do the same job someone else is doing for a little less and see what happens.
Do I really have to pull a source showing that most low wage workers lack education compared to their counterparts?

REALLY?



Quote:
"Let's lower falling American wages"? "We" don't control wages, market forces control wages. Government forces can mess with that, but only to an extent.
Nonsense. Market forces do not control wages. Otherwise the average CEO who heads a failing company would be severely punished. In the meantime the government has no right to open all American jobs up for bid to foreign nationals. That would be suicide.

Quote:
I do not. I am sorry that you feel that protectionism with regards to labor is an effective way to protect domestic interests.
I am sorry that you do not understand that importing millions of low skilled laborers who do not speak English and have dropped out of high school will only hugely hurt our economy.

Our domestic interests are not preserved by importing poverty.

Quote:
I'm sure you support tariffs on foreign goods and all sorts of other anti-free market nonsense that has long since been shown to be harmful to economies.
If you'd like to be a free market fundamentalist extremist, go ahead. I want my government watching my 401k and my local labor force. You will not get a civil society otherwise.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:25 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,513 times
Reputation: 89
Eleanora just repeating talking points with no sources to back any of her b.s. claims up in this thread.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:26 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,389,743 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by USAnumber1 View Post
ten year olds can't consent to labor agreements. Adults can. People complain a lot about bad analogies around here but this one is actually bad because you're not acknowledging the consent issue.

Same for your other strawmen about polluting rivers and poisioning food. Both of those examples include one party doing something without the others' consent. Hiring an adult doesn't.

Nice try though.
Like it or not illegals can't either. They don't have carte blanche to just do as they please in the workforce. No employer or employee does.

I could "consent" to be a slave. Does that mean the government should let me? What if I want to see my body parts? Should the government let me on the grounds that I am consenting adult? You pro-illegals never take five seconds to actually think about the implications of the laws you are so blithely proposing.

You just attempt to leave the rest of us with higher taxes and lowered wages. Worse, you tell us to be happy about it.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:29 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,389,743 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
You haven't posted a fact or provided a link to either 1) back any of your claims or 2) refute anything in that study. Thanks for the huge LOL at the bolded though. It's just common sense they are a drain right? Screw the facts right? bwahahahahah

The funny thing is I can provide other studies that say pretty much the same thing. Complete with links to their sources the information is derived from. Virtually all of the economists agree they are a net benefit being here. The ones that don't seem to tie to weird organizations with agendas like preserving the white race, etc.
You have posted ONE study and act as if you've discovered the universe. The leftist agenda of open borders and lowering wages for the lower classes in the name of ethnic politics does not impress me and I am a leftist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Eleanora just repeating talking points with no sources to back any of her b.s. claims up in this thread.


Yeah whereas reciting the idiotic mantra that low skilled high school drop outs who don't speak English benefits most Americans isn't b.s. or a talking point.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:30 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,880 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Nonsense. Market forces do not control wages. Otherwise the average CEO who heads a failing company would be severely punished. In the meantime the government has no right to open all American jobs up for bid to foreign nationals. That would be suicide.
There is plenty of garbage in your post, but I'm just quoting this to emphasize how little you understand about economics.

Every single response of yours is a two part failure.

1. Make factually inaccurate statement (market forces do not control wages, otherwise all these CEOs would be punished, right?!?!)

2. Assert your conclusion as if it is a fact (the government has no right to allow for unfettered immigration).

Do you want to actually discuss this or no? Constantly - I mean CONSTANTLY - re-asserting your favored conclusion is not actually debating anything.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:33 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,513 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
You have posted ONE study and act as if you've discovered the universe. .
I didn't post it. Your buddy Liquid Reigns who is anti-immigration did. Herp a derp.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:38 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,389,743 times
Reputation: 2345
Here. Have fun continuing to brand everyone who agrees with you a racist:

Illegal Immigration Costs U.S. $113 Billion a Year, Study Finds - FoxNews.com

[LEFT]
Quote:
The cost of harboring illegal immigrants in the United States is a staggering $113 billion a year -- an average of $1,117 for every “native-headed” household in America -- according to a study conducted by the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR).
Center for Immigration Studies

Quote:
This study is one of the first to estimate the total impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Most previous studies have focused on the state and local level and have examined only costs or tax payments, but not both. Based on Census Bureau data, this study finds that, when all taxes paid (direct and indirect) and all costs are considered, illegal households created a net fiscal deficit at the federal level of more than $10 billion in 2002. We also estimate that, if there was an amnesty for illegal aliens, the net fiscal deficit would grow to nearly $29 billion.

[/LEFT]
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:40 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,513 times
Reputation: 89
CIS in this thread!!! You do realize the history of the guy who created that organization right?
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:40 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,715,573 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Huh. That article specifically says the BENEFIT is small. Not that the DRAIN is small. The part you bolded: even hints that they considered the costs. Also, illegals pay for those other taxes you mentioned through other taxes than just federal taxes. School funding is paid for by property tax right?
It does not claim that they are a net positive, re-read the paragraph. Better yet read the entire report, as it shows that illegal aliens are a net drain to GDP by .07% (roughly $10.25 B) It does not take into consideration the local benefits. The property tax paid for schools isn't enough to cover one of their children's costs. Other "benefits, such as police and fire, etc, are also not covered enough by them as they come into an already existing system.
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