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Old 06-26-2011, 05:56 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
That's the effect they have on wages not the effect on the economy as a whole. Convenient you left out the last part of that too:
Actually if you goto post 85, you will note that I did not leave out the part you claim I did.
Then the question is is $10.25B close enough to zero? for me it is not as we as taxpayers must somehow come up with that amount to cover them.
GDP is the overall economy, not wages. Learn economics.

 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:01 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,515 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
Your own quoted paragraph above states by reducing his or her fiscal impact, either by charging immigrants an entry fee or taxing the
employers that hire them
, this is to make up the $10.25B they cost the GDP. Remember this is only for the Federal Government costs and does not include State or Local costs, which in turn would also raise taxes/or charge them at those levels.

Nice attempt at spinning the report though.
Quote:
And if we account for the small fiscal burden that unauthorized immigrants impose, the overall economic benefit is close enough to zero to be essentially a
wash.
Quote:
The magnitudes of the costs and benefits of illegal immigration hold several important lessons for policymakers. One is that notwithstanding all of the focus and controversy surrounding illegal immigration, the fate of the US economy is not riding on the country’s policy toward unauthorized workers. Allowing a few more or a few less unauthorized immigrants into the country would not have dire consequences. At the same time, Congress can increase the net benefit that the United States derives from each low-skilled immigrant by reducing his or her fiscal impact, either by charging immigrants an entry fee or taxing the employers that hire them (which, obviously, would require them to be legal).
Spin huh? I could swear they are talking about increasing an already present net benefit by that statement. Care to explain?

Last edited by huddledmasses; 06-26-2011 at 06:11 PM..
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:14 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Spin huh? I could swear they are talking about increasing an already present net benefit by that statement. Care to explain?
Here's the full paragraph.
Quote:
Despite all this, illegal immigration’s overall impact on the US economy is small. Low-skilled native workers who compete with unauthorized immigrants are the clearest losers. US employers, on the other hand, gain from lower labor costs and the ability to use their land, capital, and technology more productively. The stakes are highest for the unauthorized immigrants themselves, who see very substantial income gains after migrating. If we exclude these immigrants (illegal immigrants) from the calculus, however (as domestic policymakers are naturally inclined to do), the small net gain that remains after subtracting US workers’ losses from US employers’ gains is tiny. And if we account for the small fiscal burden that unauthorized immigrants impose, the overall economic benefit is close enough to zero to be essentially a wash.
Can you identify who Hanson is talking about? I bolded it for you.Maybe next time you should read the entire paragraph vs taking a portion and committing it to your own context. I've already attempted to help you in the math department by showing they are a net drain to GDP of $10.25B.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:21 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,515 times
Reputation: 89
He's talking about the loss the low wage American workers incur, and calling it a wash. But there is still a net overall benefit on the economy. According to this study that benefit is also small and they label it a wash as well.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:35 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
He's talking about the loss the low wage American workers incur, and calling it a wash. But there is still a net overall benefit on the economy. According to this study that benefit is also small and they label it a wash as well.
What does the underlined sentence state? He is talking about employers gains being tiny if net loss of legal workers is taken away, and if illegals are added into the mix the net positive then becomes a net negative of $10.25B.
Which goes to my question to you, is $10.25B close enough to zero (this number is actually higher since the positive .03% is taken away) so now the number becomes $14.6B? I don't believe we tax payers should have to cover that cost.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:37 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,515 times
Reputation: 89
What part of net benefit don't you get?
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:39 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Well I'm being told by the government that social security is in trouble, that the government is in deep debt -- trillions of dollars in debt - and that the already high taxes I'm paying will need to go up.

Where's my benefit? I get no benefit whatsoever from illegals. My property taxes for schools are ridiculous, I employ no illegals so obviously don't get benefit from having ultra cheap servants.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:40 PM
 
36 posts, read 14,559 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Well I'm being told by the government that social security is in trouble, that the government is in deep debt -- trillions of dollars in debt - and that the already high taxes I'm paying will need to go up.

Where's my benefit? I get no benefit whatsoever from illegals. My property taxes for schools are ridiculous, I employ no illegals so obviously don't get benefit from having ultra cheap servants.
Do you like fruits and vegetables?
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:41 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,007 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Well I'm being told by the government that social security is in trouble, that the government is in deep debt -- trillions of dollars in debt - and that the already high taxes I'm paying will need to go up.

Where's my benefit? I get no benefit whatsoever from illegals. My property taxes for schools are ridiculous, I employ no illegals so obviously don't get benefit from having ultra cheap servants.
You expect your own tangible personal benefit from every economic phenomenon? Where's the benefit that someone working in a McDonald's across the country from you provides you personally?
 
Old 06-26-2011, 06:44 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoltronRoad View Post
Do you like fruits and vegetables?
I don't mind buying the imported fruits and vegetables and where I live, that's mostly all there is.

If the farmer can't provide jobs to Americans or cannot bring himself to hire Americans then it's better for the farm to be in the other country. Fewer than 500,000 of the over 30 million illegals here are doing farm work.
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