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Old 06-26-2011, 10:14 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,166,436 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
You'll find our nation wasn't founded at once, and it absorbed territory from other influences. As I said, specific to my state we have a line item that no language is to be regarded as primary here - The 1850 Federal Census showed 90% spoke Spanish.

We print documents in other languages to support our population. At this point it doesn't "save" any taxes to change that. If you want English as the "official" language, get it passed through Congress.

To put it back on you, I don't have to accept that definition if I don't want to, that is my "right"...
I was speaking of on the federal level. An official language of English would put an end to printing all kinds of federal documents in several languages. How can you possibly say that it won't save us tax dollars with less paperwork? If someone can't read English they can get someone to translate it for them.

California's official language is English even though there are a high percentage of Spanish speakers here. The idea is to encourage people to learn and read our language also. Coddling those who won't is ridiculous. There are bills pending in congress to make English our "official" language and there is no reason it shouldn't be anymore than Spanish shouldn't be the langauge of Mexico, or German the language of Germany. Those who don't want that have an ulterior motive.

Last edited by chicagonut; 06-26-2011 at 10:25 AM..

 
Old 06-26-2011, 10:19 AM
 
951 posts, read 617,513 times
Reputation: 89
ITT chicagonut continues to destroy her claim she only cares about illegal aliens with her own irrational desire to employ an English only mandate in our country.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 10:20 AM
 
35 posts, read 18,618 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
There are bills pending in congress to make English our "official" language and there is no reason it shouldn't be anymore than Spanish shouldn't be the langauge of Mexico, or Germany the language of Germany. Those who don't want that have an ulterior motive.
No, the people who don't want that are pretty open and up front about their motive. Their motive is freedom.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:03 AM
 
82 posts, read 73,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie47 View Post
So, how does a "national" language differ from an "official" language? If English were to, tomorrow, become our "official" language even though today it is merely our "national" language, what would change?
I can't say that either word really means anything. The reality on the ground looks to be so complex that even a simple split beween de facto vs de jure doesn't imply understanding I think.

Something like over 50% of the states have adopted English as an official language propositions and/or laws. That can mean a lot of things. Are legally binding contracts always in English? Courtroom proceedings? Government publications? Statutes themselves? It probably depends on the individual circumstances within that state.

I can see a couple of areas where this can get silly and/or impractical. The first is requirements imposed on government to produce documents in non-English. It makes sense as a courtesy, but there is an inevitable ratchet that cranks up when every language speaker desires their own copy of the drivers license handbook. Translating and printing up 300+ versions of .gov documents seems a heavy burden. No doubt there are people that want to treat Spanish as a special protected class here, but it's a weak argument. The strong one is English or everybody.

The primary impracticality, and it's not really a problem yet, is that of actually producing written law in multiple languages. Given the need for exactness in meaning, and human (even legal) language is a pretty blunt instrument anyway, adding the overhead of producing multilingual law with identical results sounds like a fool's errand. The EU is the poster child for this problem.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:18 AM
 
192 posts, read 91,570 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
The strong one is English or everybody.
Not really. The alternative argument is to publish them in the, say, top 10 most widely spoken languages in this country. Or worldwide, take your pick.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:24 AM
 
192 posts, read 91,570 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
An "official" language would allow us not to have to print all kinds of government documents in several different languages. It is a huge tax savings. Not to mention that since English has been our national language since its founding it should take its rightful place as "official" which is an identifying part of our heritage and culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I was speaking of on the federal level. An official language of English would put an end to printing all kinds of federal documents in several languages. How can you possibly say that it won't save us tax dollars with less paperwork? If someone can't read English they can get someone to translate it for them.

California's official language is English even though there are a high percentage of Spanish speakers here. The idea is to encourage people to learn and read our language also. Coddling those who won't is ridiculous. There are bills pending in congress to make English our "official" language and there is no reason it shouldn't be anymore than Spanish shouldn't be the langauge of Mexico, or German the language of Germany. Those who don't want that have an ulterior motive.
Would anything change regarding the freedom of businesses to offer services in multiple languages to their customers?
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Florida !
222 posts, read 417,608 times
Reputation: 229
Why is it the taxpayers responsibility to have any document printed in any language other than English? And where does it stop.... if we continue this path, how many languages will be enough?
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:32 AM
 
82 posts, read 73,729 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie47 View Post
Not really. The alternative argument is to publish them in the, say, top 10 most widely spoken languages in this country. Or worldwide, take your pick.
Not so easy. Why not the top 9? Why not the top 11? Is it because we (mostly) have 10 fingers?

Which documents are translated? The aforementioned drivers license manual? All ten trillion pages of state regulations that come through various agencies? Tax forms (and there's more than you might think)? Internal documentation within government? Library card catalogs? Should government deal with incoming documentation in all the top 10 (or 9, or 11) languages?

What about the lawsuit from the Xhosan click language speaker?

Reality has the nasty ability to whittle away at simple rule sets.

The next set of lawsuits you might expect could even be on the quality of translation. Not just a poor job by the legion of government translators, but by increasingly widespread use of automated translation.

Like I said, the EU will end up being a huge lab for this kind of thing. Personally, I feel it will blow apart at some point, but if it doesn't, they'll have to permanently settle scores of similar problems over time.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:36 AM
 
82 posts, read 73,729 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrWookie47 View Post
Would anything change regarding the freedom of businesses to offer services in multiple languages to their customers?
Good lord, I would hope not. If Amazon wants to put up a Athabascan website and Fedex wants to send out a Navajo speaking driver to deliver the goods, let them knock themselves out.

Just don't force them to do it.
 
Old 06-26-2011, 11:37 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,389,743 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by VoltronRoad View Post
I assume you and your friends have never jaywalked, littered, or broken the speed limit, right? I mean we are for the RULE OF LAW!
So we can all speed and litter because someone else speeds and litters?

Maybe some of us think your first act when coming here shouldn't be to immediately break the law.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Crimes other than ID theft and SS numbers to get work & housing? Because like I said like 20 posts ago, making it easier to let them in legally would erase the necessity of these crimes being committed instantly.
As has been repeatedly pointed out over and over again we don't need low skilled high school drop outs from Latin America who don't speak English. We certainly don't need them in middle of a huge recession.
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