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Old 06-27-2011, 09:34 AM
 
13 posts, read 5,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
"Freedom of movement"?
It's a human right.
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:49 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by La-Z-Boy View Post
It's a human right.
It isn't a human right to enter a country without authorization.
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Old 06-27-2011, 09:59 AM
 
13 posts, read 5,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It isn't a human right to enter a country without authorization.
Yes, it is. Human rights aren't bestowed on you by a government, they are infringed upon by them. Something that creeps in whenever you have a governing state with borders but who's impact should be minimized according to most libertarians.



"Human rights are "basic rights and freedoms that all people are entitled to regardless of nationality, sex, national or ethnic origin, race, religion, language, or other status."[1] Human rights are conceived as universal and egalitarian, with all people having equal rights by virtue of being human." From wiki
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:00 AM
 
575 posts, read 800,925 times
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So, let me get this straight.

On the one hand, we have people trying to get here legally, get green cards and so on and live here like law abiding citizens they hope to be come.

On the other hand we have people coming over here illegally; or coming over here to have their child and create an anchor baby; or coming over here so some big corporation can displace the american worker and pay this new guy much less then what it would be worth otherwise, and these visa workers probably have to apply for government assistance (food stamps, wic etc) because they accepted a job that cannot support them.

It seems to me that the people coming over here legally need a bigger political voice. How they would go about getting that, I don't know. But that is what they need.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Reality
9,958 posts, read 7,316,198 times
Reputation: 3306
Quote:
Originally Posted by La-Z-Boy View Post
Yes, it is. Human rights aren't bestowed on you by a government, they are infringed upon by them. Something that creeps in whenever you have a governing state with borders but who's impact should be minimized according to most libertarians.



"Human rights are "basic rights and freedoms that all people are entitled to regardless of nationality, sex, national or ethnic origin, race, religion, language, or other status."[1] Human rights are conceived as universal and egalitarian, with all people having equal rights by virtue of being human." From wiki
We have a live one here! Freedom of movement... now that's a new way to label breaking the law.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:07 AM
 
951 posts, read 616,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebri View Post
So, let me get this straight.

On the one hand, we have people trying to get here legally, get green cards and so on and live here like law abiding citizens they hope to be come.

On the other hand we have people coming over here illegally; or coming over here to have their child and create an anchor baby; or coming over here so some big corporation can displace the american worker and pay this new guy much less then what it would be worth otherwise, and these visa workers probably have to apply for government assistance (food stamps, wic etc) because they accepted a job that cannot support them.

It seems to me that the people coming over here legally need a bigger political voice. How they would go about getting that, I don't know. But that is what they need.
So, let me get this straight. You think the illegals wouldn't jump at a chance to come legally, or were waiting in line when they said screw it my family needs money?
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,363,879 times
Reputation: 1570
Quote:
Originally Posted by La-Z-Boy View Post
Funny how the "conservatives" like to try to co-opt libertarianism whenever it sounds good, but when faced with ideas like freedom of movement then the government intervention can't be big enough. It's one of the few things Ron Paul gets completely wrong.
So, you advocate allowing anyone, at anytime, to just freely enter our country and go where they wish? Do you also advocate allowing a toddler to play in the street, for the sake of "freedom of movement?"
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,363,879 times
Reputation: 1570
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevebri View Post
So, let me get this straight.

On the one hand, we have people trying to get here legally, get green cards and so on and live here like law abiding citizens they hope to be come.

On the other hand we have people coming over here illegally; or coming over here to have their child and create an anchor baby; or coming over here so some big corporation can displace the american worker and pay this new guy much less then what it would be worth otherwise, and these visa workers probably have to apply for government assistance (food stamps, wic etc) because they accepted a job that cannot support them.

It seems to me that the people coming over here legally need a bigger political voice. How they would go about getting that, I don't know. But that is what they need.
I fully agree with you. As the wife and mother-in-law of LEGAL immigrants from the UK, as well as having cousins married to LEGAL immigrants from Russia and Africa, I believe that those who are attempting to do things the RIGHT way should be given a stronger voice.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:20 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,771 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
I fully agree with you. As the wife and mother-in-law of LEGAL immigrants from the UK, as well as having cousins married to LEGAL immigrants from Russia and Africa, I believe that those who are attempting to do things the RIGHT way should be given a stronger voice.
This just seems like an indirect way of having the generic immigration debate.

There's an obstacle course that you can go through, and the people going through it notice that a bunch of people are just running around it. You can say "hey, that's BS, why doesn't everyone have to go through the course?!" or you can say "hey, that's BS, what's up with this stupid obstacle course?!"

It's the same debate.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:21 AM
 
1,759 posts, read 1,697,180 times
Reputation: 945
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Agreed that it should be overall easier to immigrate here.
Why?
People forget that living here / being a U.S. citizen is not a God-given right.
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