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Old 06-27-2011, 10:23 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,007 times
Reputation: 111

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alltheusernamesaretaken View Post
Why?
People forget that living here / being a U.S. citizen is not a God-given right.
I'm not one for God-based arguments.

I think that it is the practical thing to do, simply because it allows better access to labor and more efficient outcomes.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:23 AM
 
951 posts, read 616,515 times
Reputation: 89
Why exactly do you want to keep the things we love about this country from someone wanting to come for the same reasons?
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:27 AM
 
13 posts, read 5,173 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
So, you advocate allowing anyone, at anytime, to just freely enter our country and go where they wish?
The mere existence of a state implies violations of human rights. I'd advocate health screens, background checks, and no quota for a six month visa kind of like I've read others on this board mention. Minimize the government involvement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
Do you also advocate allowing a toddler to play in the street, for the sake of "freedom of movement?"
Do you really see yourself as a toddler and the government as your parent?
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:28 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by La-Z-Boy View Post
Yes, it is. Human rights aren't bestowed on you by a government, they are infringed upon by them. Something that creeps in whenever you have a governing state with borders but who's impact should be minimized according to most libertarians.



"Human rights are "basic rights and freedoms that all people are entitled to regardless of nationality, sex, national or ethnic origin, race, religion, language, or other status."[1] Human rights are conceived as universal and egalitarian, with all people having equal rights by virtue of being human." From wiki
Immigration laws and policies are also set by our individual governments. Why would they make them if it is in direct conflict with your claim of human rights bestowed by government? All countries have borders and soveriegn rights to protect them from illegal entry. You are mixing apples and oranges here claiming that some so-called human rights nullifies a country's borders.

You'll be another one I will add to my ignore list. I refuse to read this kind of nonsense anymore.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:32 AM
 
13 posts, read 5,173 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Immigration laws and policies are also set by our individual governments. Why would they make them if it is in direct conflict with your claim of human rights bestowed by government? All countries have borders and soveriegn rights to protect them from illegal entry. You are mixing apples and oranges here claiming that some so-called human rights nullifies a country's borders.
Like I said multiple times, human rights are not bestowed by governments. They are mine by virtue of being human. And nowhere did I say anything about nullifying anything. Other than those misconceptions, I did enjoy the part about the fruit.
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:34 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,007 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Immigration laws and policies are also set by our individual governments. Why would they make them if it is in direct conflict with your claim of human rights bestowed by government? All countries have borders and soveriegn rights to protect them from illegal entry. You are mixing apples and oranges here claiming that some so-called human rights nullifies a country's borders.
I'm not fully disagreeing since I don't believe that natural rights exist, but your bolded is weird.

First, he doesn't believe human rights are bestowed by government. Second, do you really not believe that the government is capable of producing laws that trample on various rights that you believe we either have or should have? Or am I misinterpreting your statement?
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Old 06-27-2011, 10:50 AM
 
403 posts, read 280,669 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
I'm not fully disagreeing since I don't believe that natural rights exist, but your bolded is weird.

First, he doesn't believe human rights are bestowed by government. Second, do you really not believe that the government is capable of producing laws that trample on various rights that you believe we either have or should have? Or am I misinterpreting your statement?
I believe chicagonut has me on ignore, bit ten dollars says that when you inevitably bring up slavery as an example she responds with, "That's in the past, those people are dead, I'm not responsible for their actions"
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Old 06-27-2011, 11:11 AM
 
13 posts, read 5,173 times
Reputation: 14
I'd just like to reiterate how surprised a lot of you would be if you found out how far from "typical democrat/liberal" many of the open immigration people in this forum are.
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Old 06-27-2011, 12:19 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,711,133 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by La-Z-Boy View Post
"Human rights are "basic rights and freedoms that all people are entitled to regardless of nationality, sex, national or ethnic origin, race, religion, language, or other status."[1] Human rights are conceived as universal and egalitarian, with all people having equal rights by virtue of being human." From wiki
Basic Human Rights are to be protected by each Government of each Sovereign Nation for its occupants which are Life, Liberty and Security of Person. For the purpose as intended by the wiki link the UNCHR is used. Liberty is the freedom from Slavery and Servitude, while Security of Person merely means that he/she has the right to recognition everywhere as a person before the law.
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Old 06-27-2011, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
So, let me get this straight. You think the illegals wouldn't jump at a chance to come legally, or were waiting in line when they said screw it my family needs money?
Please cite the source for your assertion that they were waiting in line. And, if true, how does that justify illegal entry?
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