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Old 06-28-2011, 11:37 AM
 
17 posts, read 7,794 times
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There are many ways to be on state sponsored welfare and fleece the taxpayers in that state you're moving into. These apples really taste quite a bit like oranges.
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:41 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Sorry, but your hypothetical is an extreme apples & oranges scenario. Even speaking hypothetically, you canít seriously believe a comparison can be made between citizens of a country relocating to another state, irrespective of motives, and people illegally entering a sovereign, foreign nation.

The fact that they are also fleecing taxpayers makes it much more difficult to tolerate. Itís bad enough that they are here illegally. But, at the very least, they should support themselves and their children, and not burden the taxpayers of this country.
As I've said, your answer either way is not a trap. I have said that there are many differences to the two scenarios. But what I'd like to do is break apart the various arguments being made on these forums and see where the disagreements really lie. We know, for example, there are lots of disagreements on the issue of rule of law. I am trying to get the economics arguments straight. Not a single person has been willing to answer this hypothetical.
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,832,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SitNSnooze View Post
There are many ways to be on state sponsored welfare and fleece the taxpayers in that state you're moving into. These apples really taste quite a bit like oranges.
Irrelevant. Thereís a HUGE difference between people relocating within THEIR country, whether they collect welfare or not, and foreigners who have no right to be here whatsoever. Learn the difference.

Enjoy your orange-tasting apples. Delusion has a tendency to blur the senses.
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:47 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,786 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Irrelevant. Thereís a HUGE difference between people relocating within THEIR country, whether they collect welfare or not, and foreigners who have no right to be here whatsoever. Learn the difference.
Agreed, that's a separate debate.
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,832,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
As I've said, your answer either way is not a trap. I have said that there are many differences to the two scenarios. But what I'd like to do is break apart the various arguments being made on these forums and see where the disagreements really lie. We know, for example, there are lots of disagreements on the issue of rule of law. I am trying to get the economics arguments straight. Not a single person has been willing to answer this hypothetical.
I am not concerned about a trap. However, in my opinion, the premise of this thread is nonsense. If you want to address those issues, you should have simply started a relevant thread. Iím sorry, but this isnít it.

Regardless, there is no justification for illegal immigration, particularly, given our generosity. There is absolutely nothing that will change my stance on illegal immigration.
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Old 06-28-2011, 11:59 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I am not concerned about a trap. However, in my opinion, the premise of this thread is nonsense. If you want to address those issues, you should have simply started a relevant thread. Iím sorry, but this isnít it.

Regardless, there is no justification for illegal immigration, particularly, given our generosity. There is absolutely nothing that will change my stance on illegal immigration.
OK?

I mean, I DID start a relevant thread. This is like, the most relevant thread you could start on the economics issue.

You may not be ready to change your mind, but you are clearly unwilling to answer the hypothetical. I'm not sure why, aside from your belief that it's irrelevant. If it's irrelevant, just tell me whether you think that hypothetical law would harm Michigan, and you can explain why you feel it's irrelevant from there. My guess, obviously, is that you do not feel prepared to defend your position, whatever it may be.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:06 PM
 
20 posts, read 9,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
ALL AMERICANS should support themselves and their children, and not burden the taxpayers of this country.
I don't mind you have a problem with 10 million people not supporting their children and burdening the taxpayers of this country (I'm pretty sure that number is wrong anyway)

What I would ask is why your more concerned with 10 million doing it Instead of the 1-250,000,000 legal americans who dont' support their kids and are fleecing the taxpayers

Hurts me more to see a dad making 150k a year with 3 wives 6 kids that he never sees and never supports figures out a way to relieve himself of most of his tax burden while problably scamming food stamps some how for him or for one of his wives and 6 kids

Bad Americans >(greater problem) that Bad Migrants

Although I will freely admit I'm not as informed on the subject as you because I'm more worried about not having an NFL season this year than who's taking cans out of my recycling bin.

And I'll freely admit I'm more concerned about not paying 100 dollars at the store for a vegetable tray for the NFL season we might not have, instead of who's picking cans out of my recycling bin.

I guess it's a matter of priorites mine are problably more selfish and less patriotic than yours I just like football.

I think it just angers me more to have a neighbor treating his family bad and scamming welfare than the guy picking cans out of my recycling bin.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:08 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,786 times
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Please don't turn this into another run of the mill thread. I plan on waiting forever for someone to man up and answer the hypothetical.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:13 PM
 
20 posts, read 9,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
. There is absolutely nothing that will change my stance on illegal immigration.

Honestly ?

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion I don't side with anyone but I would like to ask you ..


Assume you someday win and all Illegal Immigration is over we have walls and cops everywhere


If during NFL season you went to the grocery store and corn on the Cob cost 50 bucks for 10 ears and a vegetable tray cost 100 bucks.

That would not do anything for you ?????

Sheesh I'd be up in arms

The prospect of me eating Ramen Noodles on Sundays is terrifying Work everyday slaving and then on the one or two days where you can enjoy life you can't even afford to eat Skewers with onions, peppers, steak, garlic etc....

It's easy to say NOTHING would change your mind and I'd problably say the same thing.....

Until my super sunday became SUPER EXPENSIVE SUNDAY.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,832,685 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
OK?

I mean, I DID start a relevant thread. This is like, the most relevant thread you could start on the economics issue.

You may not be ready to change your mind, but you are clearly unwilling to answer the hypothetical. I'm not sure why, aside from your belief that it's irrelevant. If it's irrelevant, just tell me whether you think that hypothetical law would harm Michigan, and you can explain why you feel it's irrelevant from there. My guess, obviously, is that you do not feel prepared to defend your position, whatever it may be.
I have already explained why I will not play your hypothetical game. I can easily defend my position. However, I have neither the time nor the inclination to participate in a discussion based on what I consider as nonsense. And, you are certainly entitled to believe whatever you choose.
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