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Old 07-02-2011, 03:23 PM
 
187 posts, read 151,709 times
Reputation: 105

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
This so-called investment would be wiped out by the added competition for our jobs and resources. I say cut the losses now. The only opportunity that exists are for them, not us.

As I said, most Americans disagree with having to educate illegal foreigners anyway so in that sense it was an unathorized investment on our part. We have no more obligation to them in regards to education once they complete 12th grade. They would do their own countries well to take that education and fix them. If enough of them do that perhaps they will have a more educated citizenry down the road and less peasants to send our way to steal our education dollars, resources, taxes and jobs. Maybe finally the cycle would end and in the long this would be a benefit to us.

The bottom line is that our "peasants" as you call it are totally useless, no agricultural industry can survive with our anglo workforce, largely illiterate, that expect to live the "american dream" by doing menial jobs with very poor attitude and expect to live large having all kinds of toys.
I gave up with anglo contractors, they always lied to me, with poor quality jobs, and no remorse. Nowadays, I make sure that when I hire someone, he is from south of the border, and if possible, undocumented, that ensures that I will get what I pay for, with no excuses....
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Old 07-02-2011, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,237,529 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by miss yauco View Post
The bottom line is that our "peasants" as you call it are totally useless, no agricultural industry can survive with our anglo workforce, largely illiterate, that expect to live the "american dream" by doing menial jobs with very poor attitude and expect to live large having all kinds of toys.
I gave up with anglo contractors, they always lied to me, with poor quality jobs, and no remorse. Nowadays, I make sure that when I hire someone, he is from south of the border, and if possible, undocumented, that ensures that I will get what I pay for, with no excuses....
Most people DONT like illegal alien workers cause they do bad work a lot. I dont wanna get busted for hiring illegals. To scary.
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Old 07-02-2011, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
11,920 posts, read 13,245,498 times
Reputation: 12647
For those who say businesses that can only pay $8 an hour should not be in business... Well, how does a business that pays well compete with a company down the street that's full of illegals? There's a good reason many trades have gone down the toilet in the last few decades, and many honest operations have either adapted (hired illegals) or gone out of business. The company that hires legal workers and pays more is probably not doing so well these days...

It's not just foreign competition killing honest, good quality businesses... It's illegals within our own borders that are willing to work for anything. And businesses have ways to get around the rules. I have seen entire production and assembly line employees laid off and replaced with temporary workers through the employment agencies, and none of them could speak English. Of course, I have no proof they are illegals, but I seriously doubt even 10% were legal. Of course, the temp agency changes it's name and location every few years, likely because they get caught within that period of time, but the cycle continues. The actual business getting the worker doesn't care, they are not required to check papers, it is the responsibility of the temp agency. The temp workers get minimum wage to sweat and work 12 hours a day, with no benefits. This practice is running wild.

These jobs could pay decent wages, IF the immigration laws were enforced. If every business played by the rules, and workers were paid livable wages, there would be a level playing field. Unfortunately, too many businesses require illegals/low wage workers just to get by. If they followed the rules, they wouldn't stand a chance due to the competition.
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Old 07-02-2011, 04:57 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by miss yauco View Post
The bottom line is that our "peasants" as you call it are totally useless, no agricultural industry can survive with our anglo workforce, largely illiterate, that expect to live the "american dream" by doing menial jobs with very poor attitude and expect to live large having all kinds of toys.
I gave up with anglo contractors, they always lied to me, with poor quality jobs, and no remorse. Nowadays, I make sure that when I hire someone, he is from south of the border, and if possible, undocumented, that ensures that I will get what I pay for, with no excuses....
Nice stereotyping of anglos there. Why don't you use the H-2A visas for your precious south of the border labor rather than illegal aliens? Is following the law that difficult or is it all about making more profit regardless if it means breaking the law?
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:31 PM
 
1,150 posts, read 990,683 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.1989 View Post
Originally posted by Malamute
Massive immigration is not going to increase or promote stability in the sending regions. Massive migration of people is creating a vacuum, thousands of people packing up to abandon their country is not creating jobs or building infrastructure in the areas they leave. The border itself has become a very unstable region, and massive emigration leads to only more massive emigration.

It would be better to promote stability and growth in the sending regions -- and massive immigration certainly does not accomplish that. But also the USA cannot take in all the impoverished people of the world who would like to have a comfortable middle class standard of living. [/quote]

Neither would deporting people enrolled in higher education, that are very close to graduating would do good to the receiving country though. I could not imagine the UK deporting illegals working as software engineers or even in the financial sector - that would be one hell of a brain drain, which it could not afford. The same goes for the US. Don't only see it from the perspective of the sending region, you also have to see how it is benefitting the receiving country. I find it hard to believe that illegal immigration has done NOTHING but harm to the country. What there needs to be is more regulation or faster citizenship to those illegals that are contributing to the economy. I think people in general need to be educated more about the economics of illegal immigration - its has a lot of problems to it just like you have described but there's also benefits to it. That's just my opinion though[/quote]

The thing is, even well educated illegal aliens aren't a benefit, as once they get their degrees, they can't legally work in this country. They're still illegal aliens, and being educated doesn't change that. We're educating many foreign nationals who will return to their countries of origin to work.

As for more regulation, how do you propose we regulate illegal immigration? By it's very nature, it can't be regulated. We tried faster citizenship with an amnesty in 1986. Supposedly there were about 1,000,000 ileegal aliens here at that time, however approximately 3,000,000 applied for amnesty. What did we get in return? Another 20,000,000 illegal aliens.

If illegal aliens were made legal, they wouldn't work for the low wages they do now. That means their employers would no longer want them, but would hire more illegal aliens, encouraging more illegal immigration. For over 200 years the work got done without millions of illegal aliens. American workers made this into a country which people risk their lives to get to. Unfortunately they can't afford to work for such low wages, because they don't have the option of changing their name, and disappearing into an ethnic neighborhood when caught with a fake or stolen Social Security number, driver's license, or birth certificate, and not paying taxes.
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:34 PM
 
1,150 posts, read 990,683 times
Reputation: 369
This didn't separate my post from the one I was responding to, so IA'LL ATTEMPT TO DO THAT NOW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.1989
Originally posted by Malamute

<<Massive immigration is not going to increase or promote stability in the sending regions. Massive migration of people is creating a vacuum, thousands of people packing up to abandon their country is not creating jobs or building infrastructure in the areas they leave. The border itself has become a very unstable region, and massive emigration leads to only more massive emigration.

It would be better to promote stability and growth in the sending regions -- and massive immigration certainly does not accomplish that. But also the USA cannot take in all the impoverished people of the world who would like to have a comfortable middle class standard of living. [/quote]

Neither would deporting people enrolled in higher education, that are very close to graduating would do good to the receiving country though. I could not imagine the UK deporting illegals working as software engineers or even in the financial sector - that would be one hell of a brain drain, which it could not afford. The same goes for the US. Don't only see it from the perspective of the sending region, you also have to see how it is benefitting the receiving country. I find it hard to believe that illegal immigration has done NOTHING but harm to the country. What there needs to be is more regulation or faster citizenship to those illegals that are contributing to the economy. I think people in general need to be educated more about the economics of illegal immigration - its has a lot of problems to it just like you have described but there's also benefits to it. That's just my opinion though[/quote]>>

================================================== ==================
The thing is, even well educated illegal aliens aren't a benefit, as once they get their degrees, they can't legally work in this country. They're still illegal aliens, and being educated doesn't change that. We're educating many foreign nationals who will return to their countries of origin to work.

As for more regulation, how do you propose we regulate illegal immigration? By it's very nature, it can't be regulated. We tried faster citizenship with an amnesty in 1986. Supposedly there were about 1,000,000 ileegal aliens here at that time, however approximately 3,000,000 applied for amnesty. What did we get in return? Another 20,000,000 illegal aliens.

If illegal aliens were made legal, they wouldn't work for the low wages they do now. That means their employers would no longer want them, but would hire more illegal aliens, encouraging more illegal immigration. For over 200 years the work got done without millions of illegal aliens. American workers made this into a country which people risk their lives to get to. Unfortunately they can't afford to work for such low wages, because they don't have the option of changing their name, and disappearing into an ethnic neighborhood when caught with a fake or stolen Social Security number, driver's license, or birth certificate, and not paying taxes.
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:39 AM
 
34 posts, read 36,283 times
Reputation: 17
Then who are they competing against - whose jobs are they taking if they couldn't work after college? Is it the farming industry once again? Because the more I read about it the more I realize the ranting is nothing more than racism and xenophobia. But I'm glad you are realising the faults in the system through your post Jayarcy

'The thing is, even well educated illegal aliens aren't a benefit, as once they get their degrees, they can't legally work in this country. They're still illegal aliens, and being educated doesn't change that. We're educating many foreign nationals who will return to their countries of origin to work.'

Foreign nationals return to their country of origin to work - Not getting anything out of them!
Well educated illegal aliens are not able to work upon graduation - Not getting anything out of them!

Solution - Reform your immigration system. The chances are a Chinese would not think twice about going to a country (China) that will take over, especially if America focuses on these issues rather than on attracting as much investment and stimulating growth. There's a far greater chance a well educated illegal alien will remain in a country where he was (unknowingly) raised their whole life.

Be rational in your reasoning - you honestly think the (fragile) US economy could afford this? Lawsuits, boycotting, crop prices (will rise), less tax revenue (they might not pay it directly but theres another form of tax called indirect tax, such as a sales tax - where you will pay tax irrespective of your papers or not) so on so forth. When the economy was doing pretty well many years ago, it was WAY less of an issue - where they not illegal back then? Be rational..
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:13 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,690,207 times
Reputation: 22158
Reform yes.

Of course we need to consider that the USA already takes in far more legal immigrants than any other nation in the world.

We need to shift immigration to more work sponsored immigrants. This can be done by ending much of the family chain migration where all it takes is to have some relative here and voila - you're sponsored even if you will be living off food stamps and Medicaid. But also by ending illegal immigration which will pressure employers to come up with work sponsorship.

As long as a greedy employer can order up semi-trailers of cheap illegal laborers, they will not be inspired to provide work visas.
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Old 07-03-2011, 03:35 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Reform yes.

Of course we need to consider that the USA already takes in far more legal immigrants than any other nation in the world.

We need to shift immigration to more work sponsored immigrants. This can be done by ending much of the family chain migration where all it takes is to have some relative here and voila - you're sponsored even if you will be living off food stamps and Medicaid. But also by ending illegal immigration which will pressure employers to come up with work sponsorship.

As long as a greedy employer can order up semi-trailers of cheap illegal laborers, they will not be inspired to provide work visas.
Excellent points. I especially agree with you on this family chain migration nonsense.
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Old 07-04-2011, 12:30 PM
 
187 posts, read 151,709 times
Reputation: 105
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Reform yes.

Of course we need to consider that the USA already takes in far more legal immigrants than any other nation in the world.

We need to shift immigration to more work sponsored immigrants. This can be done by ending much of the family chain migration where all it takes is to have some relative here and voila - you're sponsored even if you will be living off food stamps and Medicaid. But also by ending illegal immigration which will pressure employers to come up with work sponsorship.

As long as a greedy employer can order up semi-trailers of cheap illegal laborers, they will not be inspired to provide work visas.

The problem is that when you put the government in the mix, thigs get too complicated, if I need someone to work for me for a few days, I'm not going to spend an eternity filling papers for work visas, when I have the phone number of at least ten migrant workers that will come in a hurry, perform good quality work for a reasonable price. Paying lots of money to
trade workers in the USA is one of the things that have made us so uncompetitive in this world......
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