U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-27-2011, 04:50 PM
 
34 posts, read 36,288 times
Reputation: 17

Advertisements

It features on every journal or paper I read, some American state crafting and enforcing legislation to crack down on illegal immigration. So how is the situation with illegals in the US because in Europe, especially in the Mediterranean we've been having an influx of illegals over the past years from North Africa, whilst northern europe has had an influx of indians and pakistanis and also arabs - but 'deportation' and all that are seldom heard here. I must admit we've been trying to share the burden of this influx with other european countries..nevertheless they are illegal and just like many of the complaints I hear in these forums, they replace the locals in the construction and farming industry as they are cheaper.

So my question is what really bothers the average american of having an illegal alien? If they are undocumented are they eligible to government services etc? How is the government supporting these illegals if they are undocumented?

Would an American really replace the illegal working at the farm for a dollar an hour? Wouldn't the farmer and those other businesses employing cheap labour threaten to close down and relocate elsewhere if they had to replace their cheap source of labour which undoubtedly would just be detrimental to the economy.

Thanks for any input - I want to know valid view points since such a topic always interested me and I enjoy discussing politics with Americans
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-27-2011, 04:53 PM
 
Location: John & Ken-ville
13,692 posts, read 15,115,240 times
Reputation: 9491
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.1989 View Post
It features on every journal or paper I read, some American state crafting and enforcing legislation to crack down on illegal immigration. So how is the situation with illegals in the US because in Europe, especially in the Mediterranean we've been having an influx of illegals over the past years from North Africa, whilst northern europe has had an influx of indians and pakistanis and also arabs - but 'deportation' and all that are seldom heard here. I must admit we've been trying to share the burden of this influx with other european countries..nevertheless they are illegal and just like many of the complaints I hear in these forums, they replace the locals in the construction and farming industry as they are cheaper.

So my question is what really bothers the average american of having an illegal alien? If they are undocumented are they eligible to government services etc? How is the government supporting these illegals if they are undocumented?

Would an American really replace the Mexican working at the farm for a dollar an hour? Wouldn't the farmer and those other businesses employing cheap labour threaten to close down and relocate elsewhere if they had to replace their cheap source of labour which undoubtedly would just be detrimental to the economy.

Thanks for any input - I want to know valid view points since such a topic always interested me and I enjoy discussing politics with Americans
It's not hype, it's absolutely important. The United States has never had a problem with LEGAL immigration and we welcome people from all over the world to join us by coming here LEGALLY, but today ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is completely out of control, and it makes a joke of our immigration system.

The United States is a large country compared to all the nations in Europe combined.

The problem is serious here. 20,000,000 (low estimate) people living off social systems intended for citizens, taking jobs that Americans once had. Driving down wages, closing hospitals, corrupting our political system, destroying our school systems, committing identity fraud, killing Americans from gang activity, drunk driving and molesting children.

The problem is only going to get worse.

Yes what the states are doing is necessary because the US government which is supposed to enforce immigration laws has not done that for over 20 years.

Numbers USA (http://www.numbersusa.com/content/ - broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2011, 08:55 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by M.1989 View Post
It features on every journal or paper I read, some American state crafting and enforcing legislation to crack down on illegal immigration. So how is the situation with illegals in the US because in Europe, especially in the Mediterranean we've been having an influx of illegals over the past years from North Africa, whilst northern europe has had an influx of indians and pakistanis and also arabs - but 'deportation' and all that are seldom heard here. I must admit we've been trying to share the burden of this influx with other european countries..nevertheless they are illegal and just like many of the complaints I hear in these forums, they replace the locals in the construction and farming industry as they are cheaper.

So my question is what really bothers the average american of having an illegal alien? If they are undocumented are they eligible to government services etc? How is the government supporting these illegals if they are undocumented?

Would an American really replace the illegal working at the farm for a dollar an hour? Wouldn't the farmer and those other businesses employing cheap labour threaten to close down and relocate elsewhere if they had to replace their cheap source of labour which undoubtedly would just be detrimental to the economy.

Thanks for any input - I want to know valid view points since such a topic always interested me and I enjoy discussing politics with Americans
Well the USA has over 10% unemployment rates and jobs are being exported, illegals continue to pour over the border but there isn't work for them. Our welfare programs have greatly expanded to accomodate the illegals coming over the border but in many regions of the country, more births are to illegals than to citizens. That simply is not sustainable.

Very few illegals work in agriculture. Total agricultural jobs are only about 1 million with illegals holding up to 25% of these jobs - that accounts for only about 500,000 illegals at the very most but likely closer to 250,000.

Much of our food is imported and if a farmer is only going to bring in semi-trailers of illegals who cannot afford health care or the costs of raising their children here, it would be much smarter for the farmers to move their operations to other countries. But again, farming is a tiny portion of illegal immigration, so small that it's pretty insignificant.

Massive immigration is not going to increase or promote stability in the sending regions. Massive migration of people is creating a vacuum, thousands of people packing up to abandon their country is not creating jobs or building infrastructure in the areas they leave. The border itself has become a very unstable region, and massive emigration leads to only more massive emigration.

It would be better to promote stability and growth in the sending regions -- and massive immigration certainly does not accomplish that. But also the USA cannot take in all the impoverished people of the world who would like to have a comfortable middle class standard of living.

At some point, people need to build their own countries, improve their own cultures, become responsible when it comes to having children. Instead of having many children they can only feed by sneaking into other countries, they need to learn to delay the start of their families and ways to avoid having a baby every 9 or 10 months.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2011, 09:31 PM
 
Location: USA
870 posts, read 808,002 times
Reputation: 288
Quote:
....Would an American really replace the illegal working at the farm for a dollar an hour? Wouldn't the farmer and those other businesses employing cheap labour threaten to close down and relocate elsewhere if they had to replace their cheap source of labour which undoubtedly would just be detrimental to the economy.
That's why the government doesn't really pay attention to their gripes.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2011, 10:26 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radrook View Post
That's why the government doesn't really pay attention to their gripes.
The real reason is that the elitists control the government and they want their dirt cheap labor - but not only the dirt cheap labor, they want to bring their corporations to Mexico even if the Mexicans are displaced like the campesinos were with NAFTA.

The trade deals that benefit the very wealthy are so important that the government of the USA is willing to destroy the middle class and have a large permanent unemployed class. Simply continue gouging the taxpayers to pay for it all, the rich get richer quickly and can leave at any time, they have no desire to save the USA, they have no desire to have a middle class.

It's all about greed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2011, 11:55 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,596 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
they want to bring their corporations to Mexico
Would you rather have immigrants working for our corporations here in America or outsourcing them to countries like India, Mexico etc. ?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2011, 12:45 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Would you rather have immigrants working for our corporations here in America or outsourcing them to countries like India, Mexico etc. ?
If they aren't going to provide jobs to Americans, then go ahead and outsource the jobs. At least that way, the taxpayers don't have to provide all the government services such as free health care.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2011, 12:53 AM
 
25,060 posts, read 22,106,910 times
Reputation: 11576
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Would you rather have immigrants working for our corporations here in America or outsourcing them to countries like India, Mexico etc. ?
This doesn't even make sense
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2011, 01:03 AM
 
34 posts, read 36,288 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyGem View Post
It's not hype, it's absolutely important. The United States has never had a problem with LEGAL immigration and we welcome people from all over the world to join us by coming here LEGALLY, but today ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION is completely out of control, and it makes a joke of our immigration system.

The United States is a large country compared to all the nations in Europe combined.

The problem is serious here. 20,000,000 (low estimate) people living off social systems intended for citizens, taking jobs that Americans once had. Driving down wages, closing hospitals, corrupting our political system, destroying our school systems, committing identity fraud, killing Americans from gang activity, drunk driving and molesting children.

The problem is only going to get worse.

Yes what the states are doing is necessary because the US government which is supposed to enforce immigration laws has not done that for over 20 years.

Numbers USA (http://www.numbersusa.com/content/ - broken link)

Some of the arguments here though are fallacious, as wages have been driven down over the past century by Asian nations. Deporting illegals will not really stop wages from being driven down, thats just globalization which we all have to deal with. Gang activity, I come to understand that it is perpetrated by gangs which are even in the US legal - most african american gangs; although crime is the more pressing matter. In fact as Judge Thrash had stated, in blocking parts of the law, that the main concern should be prosecuting illegal aliens that have committed a crime.

All of us lost jobs to cheaper wages, we have so many firms here that relocated to asian countries for cheap labour - and there is no point in being bitter about it because the jobs won't return. But honestly from an economic point of view, would the economy be better off deporting illegals that are in their final year of college or that would be graduating as doctors, engineers etc sooner rather than later? The way illegal immigration is going to be dealt with will just introduce much greater costs to businesses (these fines to those employing illegals) in a time when you need to stimulate growth.

I do think illegals need to be controlled but deporting the good illegals (the ones I mentioned above) will certainly not be a benefit to the economy especially since the immigration system denies permanent residence to chinese and indians that are educated in the US - so they go compete against it - that is really what immigration officers should work on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-28-2011, 03:09 AM
 
34 posts, read 36,288 times
Reputation: 17
Originally posted by Malamute
[/quote] Massive immigration is not going to increase or promote stability in the sending regions. Massive migration of people is creating a vacuum, thousands of people packing up to abandon their country is not creating jobs or building infrastructure in the areas they leave. The border itself has become a very unstable region, and massive emigration leads to only more massive emigration.

It would be better to promote stability and growth in the sending regions -- and massive immigration certainly does not accomplish that. But also the USA cannot take in all the impoverished people of the world who would like to have a comfortable middle class standard of living. [/quote]

Neither would deporting people enrolled in higher education, that are very close to graduating would do good to the receiving country though. I could not imagine the UK deporting illegals working as software engineers or even in the financial sector - that would be one hell of a brain drain, which it could not afford. The same goes for the US. Don't only see it from the perspective of the sending region, you also have to see how it is benefitting the receiving country. I find it hard to believe that illegal immigration has done NOTHING but harm to the country. What there needs to be is more regulation or faster citizenship to those illegals that are contributing to the economy. I think people in general need to be educated more about the economics of illegal immigration - its has a lot of problems to it just like you have described but there's also benefits to it. That's just my opinion though
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top