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Old 06-28-2011, 02:03 PM
 
403 posts, read 281,172 times
Reputation: 60

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
No it is not. It requires that minimum wage be paid. It requires that the employer make an attempt to hire Americans before bringing in boatloads of foreigners. It requires fair treatment of the employees. Not only that, it allows the guest workers to come here in a safe manner, they don't have to be locked inside unventilated box cars or semi trailers, they aren't having to pay cartel smugglers to bring them in, or having to hike through 108 degree deserts.

There are no caps on the H2A visas. Why do you prefer having the cartels smuggle them in to a legal already existing program? Why do you prefer terrible travel conditions for them? Are you racist or something? Or is it all only about dirt cheap labor?
I actually prefer them to have a path to legal citizenship if they are willing to come over here and put in that type of labor for the benefit of our country. Do you disagree?

For a list of problems with the H2A program, please refer to this link: http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getf...TELPRDC5087918

Quote:
Currently, we do not have an efficient system that enables willing, alien workers to legally enter the country and perform available agricultural jobs. H-2A is too cumbersome, costly and burdensome for employers. (Recent H-2A changes have only made this worse.) Work visas and resident alien cards are painstakingly slow to acquire. As a result, there is tremendous pressure for aliens to illegally enter the U.S. and obtain false documents in order to work or simply work for “cash.” These individuals would prefer to be here legally if possible; but, the legal pathways are too cumbersome and, from an immigrant’s perspective, the jobs are too lucrative to not take the risk.
Quote:
The recent action by United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) by not certifying petitions for Jamaican workers because of opposition to the long standing practice of the Jamaican Central Labor Organization (JCLO) taking 6% of the workers’ wages, has left particularly apple farms without any workers for the apple harvest. An agreement was worked out temporarily this week, but the agreement is only a one year fix. Farms are late getting their workers and the crop is over maturing.
o The unavailability of appointments for potential H-2A Mexican workers at the U.S. Consulate offices in Mexico during the summer months delays and prevents timely arrival of growers’ workforces to the U.S. farms. Workers often arrive weeks after the proper harvest time.
Quote:
At a recent Labor Conference in Little Rock, AR, the Southwestern Regional Director stated that the Wage and Hour Division would start penalizing farmers who fail to construct their contracts to accurately reflect the long hours that we work in agriculture. For example, if you usually work 50 or 60 hours a week your contract should list that as your hours of work. The problem with this is that the ETA office which handles the petition process for entry to the H2A program will not allow you to place more than 40 hours on your contract because they feel that it will discourage U.S. workers from applying for the jobs. This will cause farmers to receive fines from Wage and Hour for something that they could not have done to begin with.
Under Health Care Reform:
Quote:
Agriculture is very different from other U.S. industries. It is important that government considers the seasonal and transient nature of agricultural jobs when implementing regulations from the new health care bill. Potentially problematic issues include:
 Migrant workers frequently move from state to state. (How will state-run insurance pools deal with this?)
 Seasonal, agricultural jobs can last from 1 week to 9 months. (How will health insurance records be accurately kept for migrant workers who continually switch employers?)
 Should more consideration be given to how the 120-day qualification affects full and part-time employees in agriculture industries?
 Seasonal agricultural workers regularly work more than 40 hrs per week. How will the 30 hr/wk part-time worker calculation be applied? If one seasonal employee works 60 hrs in a week would she be considered as the equivalent of 2 part-time employees?
 How will the bill affect various sized agricultural entities differently? What will the ramifications be for small-size operations vs. medium-sized vs. large-sized?
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Old 06-28-2011, 04:03 PM
 
118 posts, read 80,300 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by CinSonic View Post
I wasn't trying to make a point. He just said there are jobs available and I just wanted to make sure he knew why.
Maybe you can then explain why those jobs weren't being filled instantly by all the unemployed Americans....
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Old 06-28-2011, 04:05 PM
 
118 posts, read 80,300 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
Then they need to start looking through the welfare files for those who are fit to work and send them out to the fields to earn their keep. There are plenty of people who can easily replace the illegals.
So, these work hungry, non-lazy Americans on welfare, unemployment, etc...need to be forced to work for low wages now.

hmmm
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Old 06-28-2011, 04:08 PM
 
118 posts, read 80,300 times
Reputation: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by clsicmovies View Post
You know, no one said anything about forced labor. In CA, if welfare recipients want welfare then they have to work (if able bodied), this is the Cal Works and General Relief programs. Welfare department does have a problem with getting the single mothers to work, since those kids have to eat, etc. Illegal women come over here to give birth knowing how our system works.
Not forced, but they have to work...

Do you know what forced labor is?

Anyways, here's someone saying something about forced labor:

Per Cyanna

Quote:
Then they need to start looking through the welfare files for those who are fit to work and send them out to the fields to earn their keep. There are plenty of people who can easily replace the illegals.
And if they don't earn their keep they can send them to the country of Africa.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:44 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,819,682 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
I actually prefer them to have a path to legal citizenship if they are willing to come over here and put in that type of labor for the benefit of our country. Do you disagree?

For a list of problems with the H2A program, please refer to this link: http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getf...TELPRDC5087918

Under Health Care Reform:
We already have a path to legal citizenship -- and it's proven by the fact that the USA has by far, more legal immigrants than any other nation in the world.

However so many want to come that there is a line. There should be some legal immigration but the process must be lawful, orderly, and fair. It should not be just about cheap labor or quick fixes for your countries' social problems. Immigration should be about getting those who are American on their inside over here so they can join the American people. That means they have a desire to assimilate, learn our culture and language or already have made the effort to learn it.

Massive illegal immigration hurts those who would come legally because why would an employer sponsor them for a work visa when he can just bring in truckloads of illegals who are much cheaper and quicker? Without open borders and the huge influx of illegals, many of the employers would have to offer work visas, sponsor their immigrants, and of course pay legal wages.

Do you disagree with this? Wouldn't it be better for those who truly want a chance to become part of the American people if there were more legal routes which means more employer sponsored visas? Not only that the immigrant would have a job, not a seasonal job that pays dirt.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:28 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,165,382 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
We already have a path to legal citizenship -- and it's proven by the fact that the USA has by far, more legal immigrants than any other nation in the world.

However so many want to come that there is a line. There should be some legal immigration but the process must be lawful, orderly, and fair. It should not be just about cheap labor or quick fixes for your countries' social problems. Immigration should be about getting those who are American on their inside over here so they can join the American people. That means they have a desire to assimilate, learn our culture and language or already have made the effort to learn it.

Massive illegal immigration hurts those who would come legally because why would an employer sponsor them for a work visa when he can just bring in truckloads of illegals who are much cheaper and quicker? Without open borders and the huge influx of illegals, many of the employers would have to offer work visas, sponsor their immigrants, and of course pay legal wages.

Do you disagree with this? Wouldn't it be better for those who truly want a chance to become part of the American people if there were more legal routes which means more employer sponsored visas? Not only that the immigrant would have a job, not a seasonal job that pays dirt.
I have to laugh when the pro-illegals makes claims that they are only here because they want to benefit our country. Like it is some kind of noble agenda. Why would they care about wanting to benefit our country when their hearts lay with their homelands? Besides, if it truly were a noble move on their part don't you think they would look at the total picture of what their presence is actually costing our own citizens? The fact is that they are only here for their own financial gain and there is nothing noble about that, especially when it is impacting our own negatively.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,375,396 times
Reputation: 1575
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elián González View Post
So, these work hungry, non-lazy Americans on welfare, unemployment, etc...need to be forced to work for low wages now.

hmmm
Where did I say that they should have to work for low wages? There are indeed plenty of lazy Americans collecting welfare who are able bodied enough to work and they should be told that they can get off their backs or away from the television and accept the work available, or have their benefits cut. We have more than enough people to replace the illegals in these jobs. The problem lies with the employers who want to pay a crap wage for 10 to 12 hours of work a day. The illegals taking these jobs are working hand in hand with the employers to keep the wages down.

Regarding those collecting unemployment, I have personally gone to a major ag area and asked for work and was turned away.
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Old 06-29-2011, 10:50 AM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,375,396 times
Reputation: 1575
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I have to laugh when the pro-illegals makes claims that they are only here because they want to benefit our country. Like it is some kind of noble agenda. Why would they care about wanting to benefit our country when their hearts lay with their homelands? Besides, if it truly were a noble move on their part don't you think they would look at the total picture of what their presence is actually costing our own citizens? The fact is that they are only here for their own financial gain and there is nothing noble about that, especially when it is impacting our own negatively.
They are so noble that they send most of their American dollars back over the border into Mexico, El Salvador, etc... Yep, that REALLY benefits the American economy.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:00 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,786 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
They are so noble that they send most of their American dollars back over the border into Mexico, El Salvador, etc... Yep, that REALLY benefits the American economy.
But you don't have a problem with legal citizens doing this, right?
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