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Old 06-28-2011, 06:45 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Wouldn't the abolition of Social Security and Medicare be in line with this opinion?
Social programs designed to keep seniors from starving to death or help sick Americans have no bearing on this debate. Do you really think that someone who gets cancer is responsible for getting cancer?

If I were you I wouldn't worry about social security anyway as you'll probably won't touch it for another fifty years.
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Old 06-28-2011, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Florida and New England
1,101 posts, read 1,304,971 times
Reputation: 1358
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
So you are proposing the idea that not only are illegals coming here to leech our welfare, but they are disabling themselves to do it?
"Disabled" no longer means what many of us think as disabled. Many, many of the recipients of Social Security disability are not physically disabled, but have been declared "disabled" by administrators because of depression, mental disability (like not being able to learn English as a second language), etc. This disability abuse is where a lot of the underfunding of Social Security in the past few years has originated.
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Old 06-28-2011, 06:50 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakWeight View Post
If speaking of trespassing there isn't any financial costs associated with it. If you mean of other issues then those can be dealt with separately, but the issues of violating "sovereignty" and by that I mean the imaginary line that other people drew around my property and told me who i can and cannot have on my land, then the costs are near 0.
Fantastic.

Give us your address. We'll camp out in your backyard. Because I'm sure your property lines are imaginary.

I know most of the posters here are probably just biding time until they go back to school in August . . . but for real adults believe me that alleged imaginary line -- and the federal taxes that come with it -- are very real indeed.
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Old 06-28-2011, 06:51 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Social programs designed to keep seniors from starving to death or help sick Americans have no bearing on this debate.
I was pointing out that a lot of the broadstroke arguments used re: illegal immigrants can be used to criticize all welfare programs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Do you really think that someone who gets cancer is responsible for getting cancer?
Not usually, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
If I were you I wouldn't worry about social security anyway as you'll probably won't touch it for another fifty years.
I think 40 years, if retirement age stays stagnant (lol). But I probably won't ever see a program that looks like what we now consider Social Security.
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:00 PM
 
2,791 posts, read 3,554,588 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westender View Post
"Disabled" no longer means what many of us think as disabled. Many, many of the recipients of Social Security disability are not physically disabled, but have been declared "disabled" by administrators because of depression, mental disability (like not being able to learn English as a second language), etc. This disability abuse is where a lot of the underfunding of Social Security in the past few years has originated.
I have a disabled child (cerebral palsy) & it really makes me angry that on many of my forums for parents of disabled children, parents report constant cuts to funding for their (LEGAL AMERICAN) children! The reason is,of course, the HUGE drain on our social programs due to illegals. Many children with severe disabilities are on Medicaid, because one parent (usually the mother) has to stop working to care for the child (as is our case). heck, we can hardly even get an appointment to the doctor at in Kansas City, due to the HUGE numbers of people there, about 85% of which SPEAK NO ENGLISH!!
Many programs & medical procedures are no longer being funded, DUE TO THE STATES GOING BROKE, and it is just a horrible outrage. All due to LAZY CRIMINALS who sneak into another country & suck off the system, because they are too spineless to stay home & work together to fix their OWN damn country's problems. The children of decent, hard working Americans are suffering because we are funding the children of criminals from all over the dang WORLD!!

(For the record, I'm a democrat,never been on welfare.)
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:07 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
I was pointing out that a lot of the broadstroke arguments used re: illegal immigrants can be used to criticize all welfare programs.
You did nothing of the sort. You were comparing federal programs that have been voted on by the American public with people who break our immigration laws. Making sure that our own old elderly people don't starve to death is not the same thing .

What law school are you attending anyway?

One of these in the very bottom tier?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/09/bu...0school&st=cse

Quote:
Not usually, no.
That was the implication of your argument.

Quote:
I think 40 years, if retirement age stays stagnant (lol). But I probably won't ever see a program that looks like what we now consider Social Security.
Hand American citizenship to foreign high school drop outs and it will disappear even sooner.
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:15 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
You did nothing of the sort. You were comparing federal programs that have been voted on by the American public with people who break our immigration laws. Making sure that our own old elderly people don't starve to death is not the same thing .
A. federal programs are not voted on by the American public
B. I was saying that the arguments Heidi was making, though perfectly valid, apply just as much to welfare programs when they are used by legal citizens. This is not what you are saying I'm doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
What law school are you attending anyway?

One of these in the very bottom tier?
One of those at the very top.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
That was the implication of your argument.
No it was not. Though I support the replacement or considerable reform of Medicare, it is not because it's anyone's own fault for getting cancer.
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:43 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
If Americans did not social security in place they would have to repeal it. Despite attempts from your fellow libertarians and their heartless Republican allies we haven't.
What? Do you mean if they "did not want" SS in place?

Not sure what you're saying. You originally said federal programs are voted on. They are not. You now seem to be implying that if public opinion was against SS, they'd "have to" repeal it. Also no (but SS has broad support).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Only to a 23 year old law student.
Keep guessing the age, you'll get it right eventually.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
If true top law schools really are relaxing their standards. Do they let you get away with that undiluted Adam Smith free markets nonsense over there as well?
They actually don't ask about your politics at all. Weird, right? They just look at your LSAT score and GPA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Yes it was. You're so caught up in looking for ridiculous analogies to allegedly trap those of us who live in the real world you can't even see it.
Feel free to go back and find what I said and then explain how you can make that inference.
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Old 06-28-2011, 07:57 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by BreakWeight View Post
If speaking of trespassing there isn't any financial costs associated with it. If you mean of other issues then those can be dealt with separately, but the issues of violating "sovereignty" and by that I mean the imaginary line that other people drew around my property and told me who i can and cannot have on my land, then the costs are near 0.
The line around your property is "imaginary"? Just in case you didn't know it Americans are all collective owners of this country and we are a democracy where the majoriity rules. We have a right to say who can enter it and who cannot via our immigration laws that have been agreed upon by the majority and there is not an imaginary border either.
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Old 06-28-2011, 08:13 PM
 
14 posts, read 5,312 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The line around your property is "imaginary"?
Yes it is "imaginary" as in the color of the ground doesn't change for each state and each country. People fence it off etc, but it is a construct it isn't tangible

Quote:
Just in case you didn't know it Americans are all collective owners of this country and we are a democracy where the majoriity rules.
What are you communist? Collective owners? So I can go into your house and sit on your couch and watch TV? But only if a majority of the people say I can?

Quote:
We have a right to say who can enter it and who cannot via our immigration laws that have been agreed upon by the majority and there is not an imaginary border either.
Well this seems to be the crux of the problem. See, there are some people who think they should be allowed to hire people who you don't think they should. Now if the majority passes a law tomorrow saying that those people can hire whoever they want, will you accept that?
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