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Old 06-30-2011, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,017,008 times
Reputation: 601

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDros View Post
No. He's gay, which means he hit the unfortunate immigration circumstance jackpot.
So this is back to Cyanna of how he would have been able at any point to "adjust" his immigration status from illegal alien to Legal Permanent Resident...

Spousal relationships are out, if he is gay USCIS will not recognize the marriage...

Which USCIS process does he use to "legalize" his immigration status?...
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:40 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,511 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy_Jole View Post
Since human beings should be treated equally, then illegals should not sneak into the country while millions are applying to become legal immigrants.
...Yes, correct, it should be much easier for everyone.
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:44 PM
 
Location: East Coast US
37 posts, read 23,001 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cindy_Jole View Post
I agree. Using the "equal human beings" angle is a new one.

Since human beings should be treated equally, then illegals should not sneak into the country while millions are applying to become legal immigrants.

Treating human beings equally also means that illegals should be prosecuted for their criminal activity, such as violating our immigration laws, driving without a license, identity theft, tax evasion, etc because citizens and legal residents would also be charged for not driving without a license, identity theft, and tax evasion.
No, that's not what treating human beings equally means. Treating all people equally starts at the fundamental level.

I can't make laws which favor one group of people over another group and then say that treating everyone equally is forcing everyone to comport to those laws.

For example, I can't pass laws that legalize slavery, and then try to justify owning slaves by saying that they're being treated equally under the law. Human equality supersedes unequal man-made laws.
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:47 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,161,367 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDros View Post
Ok, lets blame his mother and his grandparents.

Then why would you want to deport someone who you admit is not responsible for his circumstance? That doesn't seem very fair.



Why does the law say that? What purpose is that law supposed to serve?

Is it to punish people who broke the law? Well, he didn't do it. He was forced to do it while he was still a minor - as has been admitted in the comments above.

Is it to provide restitution to people he's harmed? Who is going to benefit form his deportation?



See, you lost me here. I see all kinds of complaining about how these people have some sort of expectant attitude, how they come here and expect things to be handed to them. Well, this guy hasn't done any of that. He legitimately worked for what he has, and has been successful. Scholarships and internships are merit-based awards. This is exactly the type of person who you should want those scholarships and internships to go to. Would you rather have those opportunities given to some kid who barely dragged his way through college with a 2.5 GPA or someone who is going to take those opportunities and make the most of them?

Those things exist to help make productive citizens out of students, because the organizations who give them out understand that by creating productive members of society everyone in that society benefits. So this is, by all objective measures, a success story.



There are? Why do those people deserve it more than he does? This is the exact "deserving attitude" that people hate on immigrants for. So it's ok if someone thinks they deserve something like this, but only if they were lucky enough to happen to be born within a relatively small geographic area? That, most certainly, is not treating all people equal.



I'm not a pro-illegal troll, and I'm not arguing on emotion. I belong to lots of websites, but I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'm basically a libertarian leaning humanist. I don't think there's a difference between me and anyone else in the world. I think they should have every opportunity that I have, regardless of where on the globe their mother was when they emerged from their her womb.

Claiming "the law is the law" is just not enough of a justification for following inhumane policy. There have been hundreds of thousands of laws which are horribly unfair, illogical, and repugnant throughout history. Hell, there have been tens of thousands of ridiculous laws in the United States - many of which are still technically in effect. There has to be a logical reason for a law to exist, IMO, before it deserves to be followed and respected rather than questioned. As St. Augustine said, "An unjust law is no law at all."
Citizens deserve more because they were born here! Sorry that you don't think where one is born should have any bearing on a person's rights. Who is hating on "immigrants"? This guy is not an immigrant anyway, he is an illegal alien. Maybe not by choice but he still is one. Neither he nor you should be blaming us or demonizing us. You and he should be demonizing his parents instead. Why should his parents be rewarded for breaking our immigration laws? Why is it so terrible for him to go back to his true homeland and contribute to that society?

There is nothing unfair, unjust or inhumane about our immigration laws. If there are no consquences for breaking the law we may as well not have any laws. In this case the consquences are that he should go back home because he is here illegally regardless of the circumstances.

You have been civil but I really don't want to keep arguing about this nor do I want to read anymore things like "it doesn't matter where one is born if they are in this country illegally they should have the same rights as a citizen of this country does". Or lies that we hate "immigrants". Therefore, welcome to my ignore list. Bye.
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Old 06-30-2011, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,017,008 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Citizens deserve more because they were born here! Sorry that you don't think where one is born should have any bearing on a person's rights...
Do the citizens "born here" deserve more than a naturalized U.S. citizen? How about Americans born abroad, and returning here? Parentage enters your equations of those "born here" if they are "Anchor Babies".

Look over what you say for the loopholes...
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Old 06-30-2011, 02:34 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,161,367 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Do the citizens "born here" deserve more than a naturalized U.S. citizen? How about Americans born abroad, and returning here? Parentage enters your equations of those "born here" if they are "Anchor Babies".

Look over what you say for the loopholes...
The person I was replying to used the word "citizens" thus my reply to them. I won't be baited by your anchor baby question. Anyone who is a citizen on paper has the same rights as a citizen with lineage.
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,017,008 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
The person I was replying to used the word "citizens" thus my reply to them. I won't be baited by your anchor baby question. Anyone who is a citizen on paper has the same rights as a citizen with lineage.
"With linage", but we usually don't base citizenship on linage...

"Anchor Babies" are U.S. citizens "born here". I would have thought they were included in your "deserving" category. You have to draw the line somewhere for the Rule of Law.
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Old 06-30-2011, 03:07 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,161,367 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
"With linage", but we usually don't base citizenship on linage...

"Anchor Babies" are U.S. citizens "born here". I would have thought they were included in your "deserving" category. You have to draw the line somewhere for the Rule of Law.
Who said we based all citizenship on lineage? I certainly didn't.
Since an anchor baby is a citizen on paper they have all same rights as any other citizen. Deserving? That is a matter of opinion. Baiting again? What does the rule of law have to do with any of this?
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:32 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, Texas
777 posts, read 924,800 times
Reputation: 3155
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDros View Post
Ok, lets blame his mother and his grandparents.

Quote:
Then why would you want to deport someone who you admit is not responsible for his circumstance? That doesn't seem very fair.

He should be deported because he is here illegally..regardless of his
circumstance. No it's not fair and he would be paying for the sins of his of his mother and grandparents but it's still the law.


Quote:
Why does the law say that? What purpose is that law supposed to serve?
The law is written to control the number of people coming into our country. to control Who comes into our country. It is supposed to preserve the labor market and to prevent overcrowding.


Quote:
Is it to punish people who broke the law? Well, he didn't do it. He was forced to do it while he was still a minor - as has been admitted in the comments above.
He broke the law unknowingly when he entered the country illegally..but he knowingly broke the law when he got his drivers license by fraud..he recruited friends to hide his secret and enable him to work here illegally. He even admits to lying on employment forms.


Quote:
Is it to provide restitution to people he's harmed? Who is going to benefit form his deportation?
The next person in line will benefit from his deportation.



Quote:
See, you lost me here. I see all kinds of complaining about how these people have some sort of expectant attitude, how they come here and expect things to be handed to them. Well, this guy hasn't done any of that. He legitimately worked for what he has, and has been successful. Scholarships and internships are merit-based awards. This is exactly the type of person who you should want those scholarships and internships to go to. Would you rather have those opportunities given to some kid who barely dragged his way through college with a 2.5 GPA or someone who is going to take those opportunities and make the most of them?
Well then maybe you should quit here...but no...you refuse to "get it". He did have an "expectant attitude". He expected people to help him maintain his status secret. What if those people had said no?? Where would he be then..prolly back in the Phillipines. He may have done the work but he did it under fraud of status. Do you actually think he is/was the only deserving soul? Are you saying that all legal residents drag there way through college with a 2.5 GPA? Are you saying that only illegal aliens are capable of making the most of an opportunity?


Quote:
Those things exist to help make productive citizens out of students, because the organizations who give them out understand that by creating productive members of society everyone in that society benefits. So this is, by all objective measures, a success story.
Yea I knew a pro illegal would say that..The poster child for success but.....His success was obtained thru fraud.

Quote:
There are? Why do those people deserve it more than he does? This is the exact "deserving attitude" that people hate on immigrants for. So it's ok if someone thinks they deserve something like this, but only if they were lucky enough to happen to be born within a relatively small geographic area? That, most certainly, is not treating all people equal.
Sucks to be him huh???


Quote:
I'm not a pro-illegal troll, and I'm not arguing on emotion. I belong to lots of websites, but I'm not sure what you're referring to. I'm basically a libertarian leaning humanist. I don't think there's a difference between me and anyone else in the world. I think they should have every opportunity that I have, regardless of where on the globe their mother was when they emerged from her womb.
Take that attitude and try to enter uh..say Mexico or Australia illegally and see where it gets you...


Quote:
Claiming "the law is the law" is just not enough of a justification for following inhumane policy. There have been hundreds of thousands of laws which are horribly unfair, illogical, and repugnant throughout history. Hell, there have been tens of thousands of ridiculous laws in the United States - many of which are still technically in effect. There has to be a logical reason for a law to exist, IMO, before it deserves to be followed and respected rather than questioned. As St. Augustine said, "An unjust law is no law at all."
Yea I know..there is a city in Washington State where it is illegal to ride an ugly horse down the Main Street of town but it's still a law (hey, that would make a good thread...)...you are welcome to any opinion you want but it doesn't change our laws. He still needs to go.
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