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Old 06-29-2011, 10:35 AM
 
17 posts, read 7,789 times
Reputation: 12

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I have a company that provides software to companies in a very niche industry. A lot of our projects are custom work where the majority of our costs are in labor. Since software can be transported almost instantly to anywhere on the globe, our company has to compete not only with other American companies but with software developers worldwide. We commonly bid projects at 4-5 times more than our Eastern European / Indian competitors.

So how do we survive and remain successful? We compete. We'll never be the cheapest, but we're also not the most expensive. We hire good people, we stay knowledgable about our industry, we work hard, write good code for our customers without them needing to hold our hand each step of the process, we work smart, and get it right the first time. My pitch to our potential clients is straight up that we are more expensive than overseas companies, and worth every penny.

Do we get every job? Hell no. Small companies often can't raise enough cash to use us and have to send work overseas. Some of those companies that offshore their work end up happy with the results. Some of them don't. Some of them come back to us after going overbudget and ending up with crap and pay our rates to fix it. Our clients that have used foreign labor previously always end up being our happiest customers and best references.

So that's why I will always laugh at the anti-immigration crew when they bemoan our American inability to compete with any incoming cheap labor. I call BS. If you can't figure out a way to give your customers a good value on thier money then you should probably look into a new line of work you are better suited for. You don't always get to charge your customers whatever rate you want. You can't stay stanant in your industry and hope to survive. Competition is good for getting you off your butt and bettering yourself. And you shouldn't use your inability to compete as a reason to use the government to limit your competition.

There are a ton of other excuses you can use for wanting arbitrary quotas or throwing out illegals. I can agree/disagree with those reasons in other threads. But I get offended when you insinuate that the American worker can't figure out a way to compete in a freer market. We always have, a ton of us already are, and our economy has been strong throughout history because of it. It sounds like BS unneeded slander to me.

TLDR, I know. But around here I see the power of anecdotes and the struggle with hypotheticals so here's a true story approach to the economics of it.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:56 AM
 
574 posts, read 1,343,929 times
Reputation: 477
Quote:
Why So Little Faith In The American Worker?
It is an excuse that companies use that don't want to pay a decent living wage to Americans and would rather hire illegals or export the work offshore!
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,367,431 times
Reputation: 1570
Quote:
Originally Posted by SitNSnooze View Post
I have a company that provides software to companies in a very niche industry. A lot of our projects are custom work where the majority of our costs are in labor. Since software can be transported almost instantly to anywhere on the globe, our company has to compete not only with other American companies but with software developers worldwide. We commonly bid projects at 4-5 times more than our Eastern European / Indian competitors.

So how do we survive and remain successful? We compete. We'll never be the cheapest, but we're also not the most expensive. We hire good people, we stay knowledgable about our industry, we work hard, write good code for our customers without them needing to hold our hand each step of the process, we work smart, and get it right the first time. My pitch to our potential clients is straight up that we are more expensive than overseas companies, and worth every penny.

Do we get every job? Hell no. Small companies often can't raise enough cash to use us and have to send work overseas. Some of those companies that offshore their work end up happy with the results. Some of them don't. Some of them come back to us after going overbudget and ending up with crap and pay our rates to fix it. Our clients that have used foreign labor previously always end up being our happiest customers and best references.

So that's why I will always laugh at the anti-immigration crew when they bemoan our American inability to compete with any incoming cheap labor. I call BS. If you can't figure out a way to give your customers a good value on thier money then you should probably look into a new line of work you are better suited for. You don't always get to charge your customers whatever rate you want. You can't stay stanant in your industry and hope to survive. Competition is good for getting you off your butt and bettering yourself. And you shouldn't use your inability to compete as a reason to use the government to limit your competition.

There are a ton of other excuses you can use for wanting arbitrary quotas or throwing out illegals. I can agree/disagree with those reasons in other threads. But I get offended when you insinuate that the American worker can't figure out a way to compete in a freer market. We always have, a ton of us already are, and our economy has been strong throughout history because of it. It sounds like BS unneeded slander to me.

TLDR, I know. But around here I see the power of anecdotes and the struggle with hypotheticals so here's a true story approach to the economics of it.
So, is your company paying a fair wage, or are they, like everyone else, taking advantage of the high unemployment rate and paying the same wages we were getting back in the 1980's?
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:12 PM
 
574 posts, read 1,343,929 times
Reputation: 477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
So, is your company paying a fair wage, or are they, like everyone else, taking advantage of the high unemployment rate and paying the same wages we were getting back in the 1980's?
From the OP's own post:

Quote:
We compete. We'll never be the cheapest, but we're also not the most expensive.
Nothing more than a euphemism for "We pay dirt for wages so we can compete with foreign companies". After all that is the American way now! Most likely they are paying 1980's wages.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:13 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,183 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
So, is your company paying a fair wage, or are they, like everyone else, taking advantage of the high unemployment rate and paying the same wages we were getting back in the 1980's?
lol "fair wage."

When supply is high....
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:19 PM
 
403 posts, read 280,978 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
So, is your company paying a fair wage, or are they, like everyone else, taking advantage of the high unemployment rate and paying the same wages we were getting back in the 1980's?
Why are you so fixated on wages? The op clearly states that he is often much more expensive that his cheap foreign competition, but he makes up for it in other ways. What he pays his employees has exactly zero to do with the point he is trying to prove that in a free market if you can't be the cheapest you find other ways to compete eg by providing a better product. Can you or can you not understand this?
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:21 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,183 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
Why are you so fixated on wages? The op clearly states that he is often much more expensive that his cheap foreign competition, but he makes up for it in other ways. What he pays his employees has exactly zero to do with the point he is trying to prove that in a free market if you can't be the cheapest you find other ways to compete eg by providing a better product. Can you or can you not understand this?
You can't really make this point to someone who believes it's inherently traitorous and/or immoral to believe that a citizen and a non-citizen are on an level playing field.
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Old 06-29-2011, 12:24 PM
 
403 posts, read 280,978 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
You can't really make this point to someone who believes it's inherently traitorous and/or immoral to believe that a citizen and a non-citizen are on an level playing field.
I'd really like to know if these guys are being intentionally obtuse or if they just genuinely can't follow analogies/ understand other rhetorical devices.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Dalton Gardens
2,798 posts, read 5,367,431 times
Reputation: 1570
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
Why are you so fixated on wages? The op clearly states that he is often much more expensive that his cheap foreign competition, but he makes up for it in other ways. What he pays his employees has exactly zero to do with the point he is trying to prove that in a free market if you can't be the cheapest you find other ways to compete eg by providing a better product. Can you or can you not understand this?
Because as just one of MILLIONS unemployed Americans struggling to find a job with a livable wage and full-time hours, wages are pretty damn important right now! What he pays his employees is a legitimate question.

I understood his point perfectly, and it might surprise you to hear that I agree, for the most part. However, in some job markets the same cannot be said. People who are tring to stay afloat by freelancing are finding that unless they drop their price and compete at the same low wages many illegals are offering their services for, they cannot get clients.
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Old 06-29-2011, 01:29 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,183 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
Because as just one of MILLIONS unemployed Americans struggling to find a job with a livable wage and full-time hours, wages are pretty damn important right now! What he pays his employees is a legitimate question.
When you are unemployed, you lose bargaining power. This is why recessions suck for laborers and low-level employees generally. Management knows that even though you don't want to take a pay hit, or a benefits cut, you will.
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