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No one saying you must hate all illegals now but this is a complete turn around from your prior views. Meeting a couple or even a few illegals who acted "nice" is no reason to turn your back on the rule of law by advocating for amnesty for some of them. You cannot forget that all illegal aliens have snubbed their noses at our immigration laws and many if not most of them have committed I.D. theft, stolen American jobs and have drained our tax coffers dry. Some if not many have committed the types of crimes that you were a victim of.
This issue isn't about hate anyway. It is about respecting our immigration laws and not rewarding those who don't. I am sorry that you can no longer stick to the bottom line of this issue. As for me I will never be swayed by emotionalism on this issue. There is way too much at stake here. My compassion is with the American people and the future of our country, our kids and grandkids.
...In my opinion, the violent offenders, gang members, sex offenders, drug users/dealers and other criminals need to be removed first and foremost. As for the rest, like I've said before, a case-by-case basis.
Exactly, my position gets painted with a broad brush, but this is what I believe also...
No one saying you must hate all illegals now but this is a complete turn around from your prior views. Meeting a couple or even a few illegals who acted "nice" is no reason to turn your back on the rule of law by advocating for amnesty for some of them. You cannot forget that all illegal aliens have snubbed their noses at our immigration laws and many if not most of them have committed I.D. theft, stolen American jobs and have drained our tax coffers dry. Some if not many have committed the types of crimes that you were a victim of.
This issue isn't about hate anyway. It is about respecting our immigration laws and not rewarding those who don't. I am sorry that you can no longer stick to the bottom line of this issue. As for me I will never be swayed by emotionalism on this issue. There is way too much at stake here. My compassion is with the American people and the future of our country, our kids and grandkids.
the passion one has for a cause can become cooled or fueled by experiencing something that offers a new insight that may not have seen before. some people may also experience an empathy that was not with them before that gives them new insight. doesn't mean they still don't believe something that is wrong is wrong only that they now consider more than just the "black and white" of the issue. you shouldn't berate or question her simply because it is no longer black and white.
the passion one has for a cause can become cooled or fueled by experiencing something that offers a new insight that may not have seen before. some people may also experience an empathy that was not with them before that gives them new insight. doesn't mean they still don't believe something that is wrong is wrong only that they now consider more than just the "black and white" of the issue. you shouldn't berate or question her simply because it is no longer black and white.
Berating? Is that what you call it when one expresses their opinion? Our immigration laws are not black and white, therefore this isn't a black and white issue. The law is the law and the consquences of breaking them should be upheld. Otherwise laws are useless.
Growing up in Southern California, as well as having been employed in a garment factory where illegals were a large part of the workforce, helps one to fairly accurately tell by observation who is here illegally. Its in their general demeanor and how they behave when approached. The women in particular give some pretty strong clues in their dress and how they will put their head down when walking past. Not 100% accurate but pretty damn close.
Regarding the photos, they are mine, I took them, and they are currently listed for sale on my two websites, as well as on my professional seller's account. They contain my watermark and copyright. These photos were taken in the neighborhood behind High Street in Moorpark. Tomorrow my sister and I will be taking matted and framed copies to the man and his wife.
Sudden change of heart? Those who know me well personally are aware of my propensity for self-evaluation, especially when I am becoming so engrossed in a belief that I can't think straight because of it. I have never had a problem with admitting when I have been wrong or too extreme over a belief or stance. What you think or believe of my "sudden" change of heart means nothing to me. I don't care if it pleases or displeases you. What I care about is the person I am and the person I want to be. Maybe the traumas I've suffered in life have taught me that sometimes I need to step back in order to deal with the issue differently before I end up going over the edge. I've survived because I am strong, and it often takes a strong person to be able to say "I was wrong."
In other words, from your cursory observation of a few “alleged” illegal aliens, you have concluded that illegal aliens are responsible for the overall improvement, which, in turn, has changed your opinion of illegal immigration in general. However, you did not gain insight into illegal immigration during your years of working with illegal aliens in the garment industry? That’s interesting. So, if you were to encounter a few “nice” ID thieves, which, by the way, many illegals are, you would then have a more favorable opinion of all who steal identities?
If a docile demeanor is your “pretty damn close” method for determining immigration status, it is fundamentally flawed, given the millions who have brazenly marched in our streets, have an arrogant in-your-face attitude, are interviewed by the MSM, and have launched a “coming out” campaign.
I don’t doubt the photos are yours. No need to be defensive. I was merely illustrating the hypocrisy among pro-illegals who question every post, and request a credible citation to substantiate every claim, yet were willing to accept your post at face value. I assure you, had you posted negative comments, accompanied by negative photos, the vitriolic accusations would flow freely.
Introspection is healthy. And, if it resulted in a more sympathetic stance toward illegal aliens, so be it. That is certainly your prerogative. I would never presume that you care what I think. Why should you? After all, you don’t know me, and I don’t know you. Likewise, you should not be so presumptuous as to assume that your attitudinal change is a source of displeasure for me. It is not. You have a right to your opinion, and I have a right to mine, and I expressed it. You have chosen to switch to the pro-illegal side, and many former proponents are now opponents. That’s life.
Do you believe all laws are moral by virtue of them being a law?
Absolutely not! However, what aspects of our immigration laws do you deem immoral? Or, do you believe it is immoral for all countries to dictate who may or may not gain entry?
Absolutely not! However, what aspects of our immigration laws do you deem immoral? Or, do you believe it is immoral for all countries to dictate who may or may not gain entry?
I think the disagreement here is twofold.
A. the "it's illegal" argument is truly terrible unless you can explain why it's productive that it's illegal. Whether or not we disagree about the merits of a law, when we're arguing about those merits, "it's the law" might be the worst argument you can make. Not to mention that literally no one here ever gets into the obvious implications of making a law - the cost/benefit of different enforcement regimes, for example. There's just a reversion to "it's the law" whenever an argument begins. It doesn't deserve anything more than an eye roll.
B. This debate is OBVIOUSLY about the morality or efficacy or productivity of various aspects of immigration law. Your question is literally "let's debate immigration."
A. the "it's illegal" argument is truly terrible unless you can explain why it's productive that it's illegal. Whether or not we disagree about the merits of a law, when we're arguing about those merits, "it's the law" might be the worst argument you can make. Not to mention that literally no one here ever gets into the obvious implications of making a law - the cost/benefit of different enforcement regimes, for example. There's just a reversion to "it's the law" whenever an argument begins. It doesn't deserve anything more than an eye roll.
B. This debate is OBVIOUSLY about the morality or efficacy or productivity of various aspects of immigration law. Your question is literally "let's debate immigration."
The issue is not the “it’s illegal” or the productivity, or lack thereof regarding our immigration laws. At issue is the right of a sovereign nation to dictate immigration policies. Now, if said laws are in fact immoral, please provide concrete examples.
The issue is not the “it’s illegal” or the productivity, or lack thereof regarding our immigration laws. At issue is the right of a sovereign nation to dictate immigration policies. Now, if said laws are in fact immoral, please provide concrete examples.
OK? I want to hire a very non-criminal team of workers from Mexico to join my company. None of them, however, for various reasons, are able to get permission to legally enter the U.S.
Now, you may believe it's not immoral for the government to prevent this transaction. But their entry into the United States is being blocked, and it's harming me. Where is the injustice being prevented there, exactly?
And lol, at issue is NOT the right of a sovereign nation to dictate immigration policies. Has one person disputed that the government CAN implement these laws?
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