U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-05-2011, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
8,088 posts, read 7,313,744 times
Reputation: 6650

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
I say if we are are going to have strict immigration laws, then do so and enforce them to the fullest extent, or live with the consequences of the alternative. Currently, we are mired in racial, economic and political arguments and are doing neither.

That really is it. The government is worthless and there is nothing we can do individually to change it. We need another political party.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-05-2011, 01:01 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
no.
What Im saying is if that cheaper bid is a result of dishonest or illegal practices then its an unfair advantage. To use such a contractor or accept such a bid then makes you as dishonest and dirty as they are.
I didn't say anything about using illegal labor. There's nothing stopping a US citizen who wants a job from offering to do a job for a lower price. With this many people unemployed that may be the best way to get a job.

Quote:
Would you buy a TV if you knew it was stolen? What if it was really cheap?
So go ahead and expand on this analogy for me. When I hire a guy who is willing to do a job for less than you, I'm buying stolen labor? I don't get it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-05-2011, 01:02 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Not the same at all and I think you know this. However, by rewarding those who already have been proven to be dishonest with an amnesty does compare to your analogy.
No, I don't know this. Please explain why these are not the same at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-05-2011, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
I didn't say anything about using illegal labor. There's nothing stopping a US citizen who wants a job from offering to do a job for a lower price. With this many people unemployed that may be the best way to get a job.



So go ahead and expand on this analogy for me. When I hire a guy who is willing to do a job for less than you, I'm buying stolen labor? I don't get it.
No when you hire a guy who is able to do it less due to illegal practices such as not paying taxes on money earned, not paying for all the things that as legal citizen you must do or face prison. This gives the low bidder the unfair advantage.
How would you feel if you placed a bid on the job. Unknown to you the winner of the bid had an inside man. They saw your bid and helped your competitor underbid you?
Thats the issue with illegals and those who hire them. They dont have your overhead. Not due to smart business practices but because they violate laws.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-05-2011, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Plenty of legal immigrants are willing to do work for less as well. What then? If immigration were reformed or H2A visas were fixed almost all of these illegals willing to work for cheaper would be legal. In other words, them being illegal isn't ruining anything. You just want to keep clinging to this as an argument because you have little else to fall back on. You are proposing we destroy labor efficiency just to protect the jobs of people who, if qualified, should be able to protect their jobs themselves by being a better worker. Amazing how that works, I know. If the wage they are being paid isn't satisfactory they can find another job.
No issue with legals finding a way to do it cheaper.
The issue is illegals dont have a right to even be in the game.
However how do we know that all these illegals would continue to work as cheaply if they were here legally? In other words the employer would lose that power over them and the valid H2A holders for that matter. It would no longer be a case of the take it or leave it position because illegals have no choice and the H2A's are forced to go along or be replaced by more illegals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-05-2011, 01:26 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,596 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
No issue with legals finding a way to do it cheaper.
The issue is illegals dont have a right to even be in the game.
However how do we know that all these illegals would continue to work as cheaply if they were here legally? In other words the employer would lose that power over them and the valid H2A holders for that matter. It would no longer be a case of the take it or leave it position because illegals have no choice and the H2A's are forced to go along or be replaced by more illegals.

For starters most employers don't even know their employees are illegal because they have falsified documents. How do they determine who to pay less?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-05-2011, 02:15 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
No when you hire a guy who is able to do it less due to illegal practices such as not paying taxes on money earned, not paying for all the things that as legal citizen you must do or face prison. This gives the low bidder the unfair advantage.
Illegals pay taxes. The IRS explictly agrees with this.

I'm talking about hiring a guy who is "able" to do it for less because he's WILLING TO ACCEPT less. So please, continue to explain the "Stolen TV" analogy, only without the made-up tax evasion scaremongering.


Quote:
How would you feel if you placed a bid on the job. Unknown to you the winner of the bid had an inside man. They saw your bid and helped your competitor underbid you?
Thats the issue with illegals and those who hire them. They dont have your overhead. Not due to smart business practices but because they violate laws.
Illegals are getting sneak peeks at your bids? Really?

If they have less overhead, that's GOOD. They're eliminating inefficiency in the marketplace. I mean I guess you're trying to say "evading taxes = less overhead" but it's documented that they DO pay taxes, so they don't have less overhead BECAUSE of tax evasion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-05-2011, 02:55 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Illegals pay taxes. The IRS explictly agrees with this.

I'm talking about hiring a guy who is "able" to do it for less because he's WILLING TO ACCEPT less. So please, continue to explain the "Stolen TV" analogy, only without the made-up tax evasion scaremongering.




Illegals are getting sneak peeks at your bids? Really?

If they have less overhead, that's GOOD. They're eliminating inefficiency in the marketplace. I mean I guess you're trying to say "evading taxes = less overhead" but it's documented that they DO pay taxes, so they don't have less overhead BECAUSE of tax evasion.
Some pay taxes, some don't. Those that do are at the poverty level so they get back what income taxes they pay in.

The argument is that they have no legal right to work here and the employers have no legal right to hire them. Let's not get diverted away from the main issue here, shall we?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-05-2011, 03:05 PM
 
2,549 posts, read 2,329,385 times
Reputation: 898
Default Be careful what you ask for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix C View Post
That really is it. The government is worthless and there is nothing we can do individually to change it. We need another political party.
You mean like the Tea Party?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-05-2011, 03:11 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
You mean like the Tea Party?
Yes, but certainly not the "Tequila Party".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top