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Old 07-23-2011, 03:00 AM
 
20 posts, read 9,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquabluesrq View Post
Illegals should not get grants- they could apply for student loans that they would have to pay back with interest. Why should they get scholarships that could be taken away from a deserving American student?

Quote:
Myth: Opponents claim the DREAM Act would result in taxpayers having to subsidize student loans for those students who register through the DREAM Act.

Fact: DREAM Act students would not be eligible for federal grants, period.

An alien who adjusts to lawful permanent resident status under DREAM qualifies only for certain specified types of Federal higher education assistance. Undocumented youth adjusting to lawful permanent resident status are only eligible for federal student loans which must be paid back, and federal work-study programs, where they must work for any benefit they receive. They would not eligible for federal grants, such as Pell Grants.
Get The Facts On The DREAM Act | The White House

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Old 07-23-2011, 03:13 AM
 
Location: In this horrid OBOMINATION
321 posts, read 305,219 times
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+1 I'm ok with that, thanks for the info

And I am very anti illegal immigration; However I do see value in this specific program with the current group of youths who are already here.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
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Originally Posted by Yakinupallnight View Post
Nice try. But, the operative word if FEDERAL grants. It mentions nothing about STATES, does it? Of course, Dreamies donít have to wait for the passage of the DREAM Act, considering they are already being subsidized by taxpayers at the state level in several states.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:58 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquabluesrq View Post
+1 I'm ok with that, thanks for the info

And I am very anti illegal immigration; However I do see value in this specific program with the current group of youths who are already here.
In case you donít know, the current age limit is 29. Many are working illegally, and are married with children. In other words, they are adults.
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:15 PM
 
335 posts, read 281,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDros View Post
I realize that the only difference between myself and them is that I happened to be lucky enough to exit my mother's womb while she resided between two imaginary lines on a map.
Yes, those silly "imaginary lines" on a map! The funny thing is, if you illegally cross over that silly "imaginary line" we call our southern border into Mexico, Mexican authorities will arrest you and throw your butt in jail. So it appears that Mexico, along with just about every other country in the world, thinks that those "imaginary lines" are pretty important and are well worth defending against foreigners who try to illegally cross over them.
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:54 PM
 
Location: In this horrid OBOMINATION
321 posts, read 305,219 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
In case you donít know, the current age limit is 29. Many are working illegally, and are married with children. In other words, they are adults.
Hmmm-I did not realize that. I am not re-thinking my stance.
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Old 08-03-2011, 09:43 AM
 
15 posts, read 11,314 times
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Originally Posted by VerticalReasoning View Post
I have some issues/comments/ideas about this



As far as the DREAM act goes it isn't amnesty. Amnesty is something for nothing while this is a quid pro quo.

Technically you are right, if there is any penalty, even if it is just a slap on the wrist, that is not amnesty by the legal definition. However, the common understanding, which I would propose as an alternate definition, is:

"any action, administrative ruling, executive order or statute that permits illegal aliens to remain and work in the U.S."

This would imply that an amnesty, while imposing no penalty for past behavior, would require the illegal aliens to come into compliance with the law as it existed at the time of their illegal entry. This means "go ye and sin no more" or that although we will impose no penalty for past behavior, we do require them to return to their homelands and remain there until they can obtain proper documentation.

In other words, if we were granting amnesty to bank robbers to absolve them of their past deeds, that forgiveness or absolution would be conditioned on their never committing another robbery. The amnesty does not permit them to continue in their lawless ways without penalty.

Similarly, if an amnesty were to be granted to illegal aliens, it should not permit them to continue to stay if illegal presence remains as an illegal act.


Agreed



While I agree in principle, it is very difficult for a non resident of a state to achieve a 4 year degree while paying out of state tuition ( which is what most illegal aliens pay except for a few states). which equals to an almost impossible amount to pay for a legal non resident who can receive financial aid ( which illegal aliens can't).

That is the reason for requiring a 4 year enlistment for every applicant. A person who is serious about getting an education should be able to accumulate a significant amount of funds toward that goal during his or her 4 years of service. Who knows, they might even be entitled to some special status as a result of their service that would put them on a pathway to citizenship and financial aid.


As far as I know the requirements is to complete a 2 year degree or 2 years of military service to have the option not just a GED or diploma.
I believe that is correct, however, a 2 year degree or 2 years of military service seems insufficient to me. I believe we should put a higher price on a pathway to citizenship/



I guess this seems weird. In order to gain citizenship you must deport your parents who you won't be able to see again for at least 10 years.

That does seem a little draconian and few would choose to do this. However, we need to keep in mind that with modern communication and transportation systems, keeping in touch is much easier than it was in the late 1800s or early 1900s. With a computer and Skype one could talk with parents face to face so to speak as often as he or she wished to do so.




Why? At age 7 a person is going to gain the will to tell their parents that they are going to leave them and go back to X country without them? 16 seems about the age of independence from parents and the ability to live on one's own which is what I imagine would be the dividing line between someone who was brought where and didn't know any different and someone who make an equal choice to be an illegal or not. Denied all tax funded benefits seems fair for Y amount of years.
I think the point may be twofold: (1) the younger they are when they come to this country the more likely they are to feel that this is their home and that will eventually make them better and more loyal citizens; (2) a 16 year old who came here many years ago may be in his or her 30s now with established values more like those of their homelands.

I believe few illegal aliens who have been here for any substantial period of time will ever decide to return to their homelands voluntarily except under economic distress or legal threat. More likely is the scenario in which a 16 year old tells his parents he doesn't want to go Norte and wants to remain in his homeland. Nevertheless, your point is well taken. The basic question seems to be how can we allow some a pathway to citizenship without encouraging other parents to drag their children across the border to secure yet another benefit.

We are led to believe that the DREAM Act is aimed at the best and the brightest among the illegal aliens, yet aren't these the very people who could most benefit their homelands? I'm sure most if not all speak their mother tongue without difficulty and their bilingual qualifications would serve them well in their homelands.
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Old 08-03-2011, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakinupallnight View Post
They will not be legalized before satisfying the requirements they will be given a "Conditional Permanent Residency" which means they are have 6 years to receive at least 2 years of education enrolled in a 4 year degree plan or complete 2 years of military service. Only then do they qualify for permanent resident status and after a wait then apply for citizenship status. In other words, they are not given citizenship before completing their conditions and they aren't even granted citizenship after completing the requirements.


This isn't a useful definition because, based on that definition anything is amnesty. A reduced sentence, defensive driving, community service, even a prison sentence is a "pardon" i.e. paying one's dues in order to be absolved of violating a law.
What on earth do you think “Conditional Permanent Residency” is, if not legalization? Will they still be classified as illegal aliens? NO! Therefore, their status will be summarily changed from illegal to legal PRIOR to satisfying the requirements.

It's AMNESTY. End of story.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:24 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,801 posts, read 30,052,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquabluesrq View Post
+1 I'm ok with that, thanks for the info

And I am very anti illegal immigration; However I do see value in this specific program with the current group of youths who are already here.
And continue to be here chain illegal immigration style. A line needs to be drawn. No more handouts. No more rewards for criminal behavior by their Parents.
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