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Old 07-09-2011, 03:17 PM
 
Location: San Antonio
4,053 posts, read 4,427,547 times
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He raped and killed a girl 17 years ago. He was proven guilty. Justice has ben served.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:19 PM
 
148 posts, read 66,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
And did this Leal guy do that?

Texas didn't have to force him into turning to his Mexican government to shield him either. It was up to him to contact his government's consulate.
you would think that even before the Arizona law there was an allowance that States can check the nationality of a person.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:20 PM
 
148 posts, read 66,638 times
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Originally Posted by thenewtexan View Post
He raped and killed a girl 17 years ago. He was proven guilty. Justice has ben served.
The issue isn't if he was guilty or not or even innocent.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:23 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VerticalReasoning View Post
you would think that even before the Arizona law there was an allowance that States can check the nationality of a person.
Is there? Liberals condemn Arizona for looking into the citizenship and immigration status of it's criminals. Obama himself criticized Arizona for that.

Now how is Texas to send a guy to his Consulate without checking immigration status?

But also Texas did not forbid or prevent this guy from contacting his own country's government from day one. He sat on Death Row for a number of years and his government did nothing about it.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:25 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Originally Posted by VerticalReasoning View Post
The issue isn't if he was guilty or not or even innocent.
And now the issue is that he's dead. And Mexico and no international court really give a damn about the sick freak.

He's gone and that's all there is to it. Anyone -- legal, or illegal or even citizen who doesn't want to live in a death penalty state like Texas has the option of leaving.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
By reading most of your responses, I have no doubt this is about some vengeance.

As someone one who has experience working for corrections I can tell you that death is an easy way out for inmates. Suicide rate is very high. It is a greater torture and punishment to keep criminal alive and deprived of their liberty. Besides, its incorrect to say that it costs less to execute. Its actually the opposite. Its a very lucrative business for all involved. Especially the one administering the injection.

It is my opinion that we should not be executing anyone. We are not Gods nor should we do His job. Besides, we have executed innocent people in the past and this should stop.

What is puzzling to me is that while working at the prison, I knew of many inmates that were doing time for their second rape, some murdered their victim and had a release date. Why would they give this person capital punishment? Why would they not allow him to have access to consular services and did they really give him a fair trial? I think those are key questions. There was a violation of international law. Don't people keep saying we are a nation of laws? Or is it only the laws you pick and choose?



Most importantly, this is going to sever relations related to inmate rights. What do you think will happen to many Americans that are jailed in Mexican prisons? What about those that are waiting for a hearing and claim to be innocent. Yes, I do believe there are innocent Americans in those prisons. Mexican prisons are no joke. I would be afraid for their lives.

There are 50 other Mexicans that according to the International Court of Justice, need to be reconsidered and reviewed.

UN official: US execution of Leal broke int'l law - Yahoo! News
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
That is why we have prisons in place.



There was a violation of international law. Please read...

Humberto Leal Garcia: The Supreme Court Makes a Bad Situation Worse - Andrew Cohen - Politics - The Atlantic



See above link.



Not going to happen.
It’s interesting that your only concern is for his “rights.” You have yet to comment on the poor girl he brutally raped and murdered, or show even a modicum of compassion for her. And, by his own admission, he is guilty. Therefore, an innocent person was not executed. Taxpayers have spent enough on his death row incarceration. Why should more be wasted by paying for him to remain in prison for the rest of his life?

It is even more interesting that the same people who would claim that he is as “American” as a citizen, given that his parents brought him here when he was only 2-years-old (Dreamie mantra) are now whining because he was not advised of his rights to seek counsel from the Mexican Consulate. Apparently, they are only American, and only know this country, and could not possibly return to Mexico, a country they do not know, when it suits their needs. Otherwise, they are Mexican nationals, and should be treated accordingly.
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Old 07-09-2011, 03:58 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
It is even more interesting that the same people who would claim that he is as “American” as a citizen, given that his parents brought him here when he was only 2-years-old (Dreamie mantra) are now whining because he was not advised of his rights to seek counsel from the Mexican Consulate. Apparently, they are only American, and only know this country, and could not possibly return to Mexico, a country they do not know, when it suits their needs. Otherwise, they are Mexican nationals, and should be treated accordingly.
Yes, there exists a very strange double standard.

If he were applying for financial aid and insisting on being given a college education, he's as American as he can be, not just American but entitled to everything an American has.

When he rapes and murders a young girl, then suddenly he's not American at all, suddenly he isn't entitled to everything an American is entitled to, his Mexican citizenship and his own country's government suddenly become more important than anything.

This is just further proof, they want all the goodies but none of the responsibilities that come with being an American and living in this country.
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Old 07-09-2011, 04:33 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,143,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Not if they're actually executed, instead of years and years of appeals. Done right, it's most certainly cheaper.
The years and years of appeals are the price we (taxpayers) must pay to "ensure" accuracy and fairness in a judicial process where the ultimate outcome (death) is irreversible.

You also cannot deny appeals to people who are "obviously" guilty because that would violate the US Constitution.

IMHO the only correct way to deal with the death penalty is to abolish it. Even as the system stands, the appeals process is fatally flawed in that defendants are railroaded through the system in such a manner that evidence of actual innocence can be missed or, if discovered, declared inadmissible. You heard that right. Evidence of actual innocence is not enough to stop an execution if judges determine that a procedural error did not take place. Seriously...read up on it. It's terrifying.

Plus, and I NEVER thought I'd say this, I agree with zacatecana. Death is the easy way out. And you're not going to see prisons full of old farts in their 80s and 90s. They aren't now and won't be later. Your life expectancy in prison is greatly reduced due to the extremely high incidence of hepatitis/HIV, a poor diet, reduced access to health care including a near complete lack of access to preventive health care, etc. Due to these circumstances you aren't likely to survive to be an old fart in prison. And even if you do, they can turn you out on compassionate or medical grounds. You'll still be the taxpayers' problem, but you won't be the justice system's expense anymore.

I'm as anti-illegal as they come, but I'm also very much against capital punishment because IMHO the risk of executing an innocent person is too high and to me, it's not worth keeping a system where an innocent person would have to endure the horror of being on death row, then being executed for a crime they did not commit.
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Old 07-09-2011, 04:33 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It seems to me that's what you're staying.

You'd probably be the first one here to condemn the state of Arizona for determining the citizenship of those it arrests, yet when it comes to your new hero Leal, it was wrong for Texas not to do so and give him a pass for being a Mexican citizen here illegally.

If this guy wanted to live here in this country, the land of plenty, then why should he not be held to the same laws as citizens are?
You're way off on three points.

A) I don't care about a policy in Arizona about determining citizenship status for people who are arrested there.

B) This guy isn't "my hero" and I'd like to see you justify claiming that he IS my hero.

C) I don't think he should be exempt from laws concerning rape, murder, etc.
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Old 07-09-2011, 04:35 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
So are you in favor of Arizona law where the state can ascertain the citizenship of those it arrests?

Now try to be consistent.
I'm pretty sure there's no problem in any state in trying to ascertain the citizneship of anyone who is actually arrested.

You do realize there's a difference between figuring out the citizenship of someone who has already been arrested and just randomly stopping someone just because you think he might be an illegal alien, right?
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