U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-12-2011, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Staten Island, NY
6,482 posts, read 5,979,320 times
Reputation: 6939

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
My whole point, of course, is that "earning" citizenship is not something we believe to be a necessary condition. I'll leave it to you to miss that point over and over again.

And yes, illegals have sacrificed time and frequently money, as well as risked capture, to be here. Far more than natural born citizens do. I mean, clearly immigrants of all kinds do more than natural born citizens to "earn" citizenship.
How do you "earn" something by committing a crime? And how much respect does someone have for citizenship of a country when the first thing they do there is enter it illegally?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-12-2011, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,830,020 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
I didn't know that the crimes had to be "fresh." But here you go:

Mahmudiyah killings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This was done by several soldiers, none of whom were sentenced to death. (fortunately)

In his first interview since the killings Green was quoted as saying "I didn't think of Iraqis as humans." Another soldier said later that "the violence he had encountered in Iraq left him "angry and mean" toward Iraqis."


That's what the military teaches people: to kill by hate. If you don't know that, you are naive. There is no other word for it. People who go into the military should know beforehand that they won't be used to plant flowers.


Here's another unpleasant case, no rape involved. Just people happy to kill:

Maywand District killings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although they didn't rape, they posed smiling with dead bodies.



As for the medals:

If you want to know the truth, you have to be honest and look. Getting honest is important to our own humanity.

Here are Mr. Koster's "winnings":

"Following his demotion, Koster was reassigned to become deputy commander of Maryland's Aberdeen Proving Ground, in charge of Army weapons testing. He retired from the military in 1973. His decorations included the Silver Star, the Bronze Star, and the Legion of Merit. His sons are career Army officers, two having graduated from West Point."

Nothing to be proud of, imo.


Peace,
brian
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Do you think that just because there is a law made, that the government abides by it?? If so, there's really no point in continuing this conversation.
"The fact that the UCMJ forbids such acts" proves nothing. Zero.

(BTW, try telling the ones in Vietnam that My Lai "is not acceptable." I'm sure they'd be happy to hear you say that.

My point is, that you can't kill one person for an act, and not even sentence another person for the same act just because they were "at war."

And yes, soldiers are rewarded for defeating the enemy (aka killing). They aren't rewarded for making peace or making friends. Much of the atrocities that occur in war are not recorded or confessed. I'm surprised that some people still don't realise that.

Code of silence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Peace,
brian
They don’t have to be “fresh.” They simply need to be relevant, which NONE of your examples are. You cannot compare the behavior of soldiers during wartime, to the vicious and senseless rape and murder of this girl. Your attempts to marginalize this heinous crime are absolutely appalling. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2011, 03:54 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,649 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavaturaccioli View Post
How do you "earn" something by committing a crime? And how much respect does someone have for citizenship of a country when the first thing they do there is enter it illegally?
I do not care that it's a crime. Trying to dodge protectionist policies is not the sign of some kind of moral monster.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2011, 03:59 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,830,020 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
My whole point, of course, is that "earning" citizenship is not something we believe to be a necessary condition. I'll leave it to you to miss that point over and over again.

And yes, illegals have sacrificed time and frequently money, as well as risked capture, to be here. Far more than natural born citizens do. I mean, clearly immigrants of all kinds do more than natural born citizens to "earn" citizenship.
Who the heck is WE? In any case, the U.S. has an immigration process, which includes criteria for a path to citizenship. Obviously, you refuse to answer my question, because you CAN’T.

I suppose if I work real hard at embezzling $30M, I have “earned” the right to keep the money.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2011, 04:00 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,830,020 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
I do not care that it's a crime. Trying to dodge protectionist policies is not the sign of some kind of moral monster.
THAT says it all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2011, 04:01 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,401 times
Reputation: 89
Why do you equate U.S. citizenship with embezzling money?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2011, 04:04 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,649 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Who the heck is WE?
You and I. You agree that "earning" citizenship is not something we require, because you don't have any problem with not requiring it of natural born citizens. I'm discussing your personal preferences here, not the Constitution. You believe the natural born citizen concept makes sense, so you don't really care about "earning" citizenship per se, merely in hte case of immigrants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
In any case, the U.S. has an immigration process, which includes criteria for a path to citizenship. Obviously, you refuse to answer my question, because you CAN’T.
I mean, I don't care if they haven't earned it or if they have, because I don't think they need to "earn" anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I suppose if I work real hard at embezzling $30M, I have “earned” the right to keep the money.
You haven't earned the right, no, but you certainly have done something to attempt to earn it.

Property law fleshes this concept out. Let's say there is $30M sitting in a field somewhere. You stumble upon it. It is clearly not yours, right? Nevertheless, you have a greater claim to it than I do, because I have not stumbled upon it at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2011, 04:05 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,649 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
THAT says it all.
Does it? I mean, you obviously attribute great weight to this crime. I do not. I don't care that smoking pot is against the law, either, I wouldn't report a neighbor if I knew they were doing it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2011, 04:08 PM
 
403 posts, read 281,116 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
My whole point, of course, is that "earning" citizenship is not something we believe to be a necessary condition. I'll leave it to you to miss that point over and over again.

And yes, illegals have sacrificed time and frequently money, as well as risked capture, to be here. Far more than natural born citizens do. I mean, clearly immigrants of all kinds do more than natural born citizens to "earn" their place in our society.
fyp, imo. (to avoid the inevitable nittery about earning citizenship through criminal acts)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-12-2011, 04:12 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,649 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
fyp, imo. (to avoid the inevitable nittery about earning citizenship through criminal acts)
Eh, citizenship is something the government can grant at will. There's no inherent requirement that the person need be of any type. If the government chose to do away with the requirement that applicants not be serial rapists, they could do so. Except that that requirement has some actual purpose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top