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Old 07-13-2011, 12:18 AM
 
2,086 posts, read 2,102,126 times
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YAY! Good for TX!
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
Rape is rape, and never acceptable imo. However, if the mexican had been a soldier, his crime probably wouldn't have gotten him the death penalty.

In war, soldiers are rewarded for eliminating the enemy, and if things get "out of control" or people "lose their moral compass" at times, it's not revealed unless someone leaks it.

Yes, I am very ashamed. I'm ashamed of the hypocritical judicial system in America, and I'm ashamed of war and all of the crimes that are done "for freedom of America."

You bet I'm ashamed.


Peace,
brian
Yes, rape is rape. Unfortunately, war is always brutal, and many innocent people are harmed. But, to imply that the U.S. military is comprised of rapists and murderers, who, in turn, are rewarded for committing atrocities, is not only an affront to the millions of brave soldiers who fought with dignity, risking life and limb, but your allegations are also spurious and blatant lies. I know quite a few combat veterans, and not one relished the thought of having to kill another human being. Not one. They certainly didn’t rape anyone.
It is your prerogative to oppose war. However, you have no right to propagate a lie. Furthermore, we are not discussing war or war crimes. We are discussing a vicious rape and murder of an innocent girl in this country, by a person who should not have been here, and would not have been here had our borders been secured, and our laws enforced. If you want to discuss alleged war crimes perpetrated by U.S. soldiers, start a thread in an appropriate forum.

I suppose you consider it “hypocritical” to even prosecute for crimes, or have prisons in this country. I guess we should simply allow sickos to rape and murder with impunity. After all, according to you, our military is comprised of nothing but rapists and murderers. Sadly, your anti-American mindset has rendered you a heartless, pitiless soul. Even sadder, you don’t even realize it. This victim means nothing to you. It simply gave you an opportunity to spew your anti-American rhetoric.
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,107,186 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Yes, rape is rape. Unfortunately, war is always brutal, and many innocent people are harmed. But, to imply that the U.S. military is comprised of rapists and murderers, who, in turn, are rewarded for committing atrocities, is not only an affront to the millions of brave soldiers who fought with dignity, risking life and limb, but your allegations are also spurious and blatant lies. I know quite a few combat veterans, and not one relished the thought of having to kill another human being. Not one. They certainly didn’t rape anyone.
It is your prerogative to oppose war. However, you have no right to propagate a lie. Furthermore, we are not discussing war or war crimes. We are discussing a vicious rape and murder of an innocent girl in this country, by a person who should not have been here, and would not have been here had our borders been secured, and our laws enforced. If you want to discuss alleged war crimes perpetrated by U.S. soldiers, start a thread in an appropriate forum.

I suppose you consider it “hypocritical” to even prosecute for crimes, or have prisons in this country. I guess we should simply allow sickos to rape and murder with impunity. After all, according to you, our military is comprised of nothing but rapists and murderers. Sadly, your anti-American mindset has rendered you a heartless, pitiless soul. Even sadder, you don’t even realize it. This victim means nothing to you. It simply gave you an opportunity to spew your anti-American rhetoric.
I am not anti-American. I'm anti-war. At the moment, America is involved in 5 wars contemporaneously. (And if it was another country, I'd still be against it.) That's because my values are more important than a nationality. Peace is more important to me than patriotism or defending a piece of land.

You wrote, "This victim means nothing to you." Excuse me?? Did I ever say that? I don't recall saying this. Of course I feel bad for her. Who wouldn't??

The power of the military is violence and murder. If anyone chooses to become a participant in that machine, that's their prerogative. You call them "brave soldiers." I don't see it that way.

The mexican who was murdered by the Texas "justice" system clearly had problems. No man who lives according to reason, who is a reasonable man, would do such an act. In order for a man to commit such an thing, there is a problem somewhere, whether biologically (brain tumor perhaps) or mental problems (paranoia or other psychological diagnosis). But killing him didn't solve anything. On the contrary, it has only fueled the American sentiment for violence as a way to solve problems.

It's all too easy to kill people we don't like. Many people on this thread are happy that he was killed. So that tells me that we have two groups of people with problems: rapists, and those who like to see rapists killed.


Peace,
brian
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Old 07-13-2011, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahigherway View Post
I am not anti-American. I'm anti-war. At the moment, America is involved in 5 wars contemporaneously. (And if it was another country, I'd still be against it.) That's because my values are more important than a nationality. Peace is more important to me than patriotism or defending a piece of land.

You wrote, "This victim means nothing to you." Excuse me?? Did I ever say that? I don't recall saying this. Of course I feel bad for her. Who wouldn't??

The power of the military is violence and murder. If anyone chooses to become a participant in that machine, that's their prerogative. You call them "brave soldiers." I don't see it that way.

The mexican who was murdered by the Texas "justice" system clearly had problems. No man who lives according to reason, who is a reasonable man, would do such an act. In order for a man to commit such an thing, there is a problem somewhere, whether biologically (brain tumor perhaps) or mental problems (paranoia or other psychological diagnosis). But killing him didn't solve anything. On the contrary, it has only fueled the American sentiment for violence as a way to solve problems.

It's all too easy to kill people we don't like. Many people on this thread are happy that he was killed. So that tells me that we have two groups of people with problems: rapists, and those who like to see rapists killed.


Peace,
brian
It is certainly your prerogative to be anti-war. But, being anti-war does not give you the right to impugn every member of our military for the behavior of a few. And, yes, it takes a tremendous amount of bravery for a young person to be thrust in the middle of minefields, subjected to IEDs, and watch their fellow soldiers being ripped to shreds on a daily basis, yet they continue to fight. I do not support our military involvement in the Middle East. But, I do support our soldiers, who have no choice in the matter. Few are rapists or murderers.

Regardless of causal factors, this guy committed a heinous crime, and received the punishment he deserved. If he was suffering from an untreated physiological or psychological disorder that predisposed him to violence, he would have raped and/or murdered again. Now, he can’t.
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:01 PM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,408,714 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Regardless of causal factors, this guy committed a heinous crime, and received the punishment he deserved. If he was suffering from an untreated physiological or psychological disorder that predisposed him to violence, he would have raped and/or murdered again. Now, he can’t.
Exactly, how would he do that if he was never going to get out of prison?
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:05 PM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,408,714 times
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“The European Union deeply regrets the execution of Mr Humberto Leal Garcia in the State of Texas on 7 July 2011. Although Mr Leal was a Mexican citizen, the Texas authorities failed to notify him of his right to contact a Mexican consulate at the time of his arrest, as required by the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations. The execution of Mr Leal, before receiving the remedy to which he was entitled, is a breach of an undisputed international obligation.

The European Union recognises that a terrible crime was at the heart of this case and extends its sympathy to the family and survivors of the victim. Nonetheless, the EU opposes the use of capital punishment in all cases and under all circumstances, and calls for a global moratorium as a first step towards its universal abolition.”

EUROPA - Press Releases - Brussels, 12 July 2011 Declaration by the High Representative, Catherine Ashton, on behalf of the European Union on the execution of*Mr*Humberto Leal in Texas, USA, on 7 July 2011

It was never about his death. It was about violating an international law.
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Old 07-13-2011, 01:43 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,760 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Yes, rape is rape. Unfortunately, war is always brutal, and many innocent people are harmed. But, to imply that the U.S. military is comprised of rapists and murderers, who, in turn, are rewarded for committing atrocities, is not only an affront to the millions of brave soldiers who fought with dignity, risking life and limb, but your allegations are also spurious and blatant lies. I know quite a few combat veterans, and not one relished the thought of having to kill another human being. Not one. They certainly didn’t rape anyone.

It is your prerogative to oppose war. However, you have no right to propagate a lie.
But it IS OK to extrapolate from one "bad apple" illegal immigrant and paint ALL of them with the same brush? Because that basically happens 200 times a day in this forum and you don't seem too up in arms about that.
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:03 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Exactly, how would he do that if he was never going to get out of prison?
And, what proof do you have that he would never be released? Plus, if he was that crazy and evil, unless they kept him in solitary confinement, he could kill while in prison. Hmmm. . . what would be his punishment then -- another life sentence?

Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
“The European Union deeply regrets the execution of Mr Humberto Leal Garcia in the State of Texas on 7 July 2011. Although Mr Leal was a Mexican citizen, the Texas authorities failed to notify him of his right to contact a Mexican consulate at the time of his arrest, as required by the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations. The execution of Mr Leal, before receiving the remedy to which he was entitled, is a breach of an undisputed international obligation.

The European Union recognises that a terrible crime was at the heart of this case and extends its sympathy to the family and survivors of the victim. Nonetheless, the EU opposes the use of capital punishment in all cases and under all circumstances, and calls for a global moratorium as a first step towards its universal abolition.”

EUROPA - Press Releases - Brussels, 12 July 2011 Declaration by the High Representative, Catherine Ashton, on behalf of the European Union on the execution of*Mr*Humberto Leal in Texas, USA, on 7 July 2011

It was never about his death. It was about violating an international law.
Who cares what the EU thinks? Again, it’s hilarious how pro-illegals whine about this scumbag not having an opportunity to meet with the Mexican Consulate. Mind you, he wouldn’t be considered a "Mexican" if it meant he could fleece taxpayers. Why are illegal aliens only “foreign nationals” when it suits their needs?

In any case, he’s dead. Too bad the EU doesn’t issue a statement regarding the countless violent crimes perpetrated by illegal aliens in this country. I would think it should also be considered a violation of international law for people to enter a country illegally and rape, murder, and pillage.
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,107,186 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
It is certainly your prerogative to be anti-war. But, being anti-war does not give you the right to impugn every member of our military for the behavior of a few. And, yes, it takes a tremendous amount of bravery for a young person to be thrust in the middle of minefields, subjected to IEDs, and watch their fellow soldiers being ripped to shreds on a daily basis, yet they continue to fight. I do not support our military involvement in the Middle East. But, I do support our soldiers, who have no choice in the matter. Few are rapists or murderers.

Regardless of causal factors, this guy committed a heinous crime, and received the punishment he deserved. If he was suffering from an untreated physiological or psychological disorder that predisposed him to violence, he would have raped and/or murdered again. Now, he can’t.
Well, I never said that ALL soldiers are rapists. My point was that if this mexican had done the same thing under the title of "soldier," he wouldn't have been given the death penalty. The links I provided for you give examples of how, when atrocities are done "for government purposes," convicted parties are more likely to get off easier, if not completely. The same atrocities, different consequences.

This man certainly committed a terrible crime. I don't think there is a person on this forum who would disagree. And I am certainly sorry for the girl who suffered it. What provoked me to responding was the amount of hate and bloodthirsty comments posted (probably by people who consider themselves "Christian" and who go to church).

Well, I don't think a person is a Christian if they are happy about other people getting executed. The whole thing is just one more tragedy in the history of America. The death penalty is legalized pre-meditated murder. And it sends a message to the public that problems can be solved by killing people. But they can't. They will continue to happen. It's a reality that needs to be addressed in another way.

Perhaps these cases are scapegoats for a whole slew of other tragic events that people cannot control and want revenge for: earthquakes, tornadoes, car accidents... People can't give a tornado the death penalty, and so their anger at the injustices of life are unloaded unto cases like this, where they can cast all their anger and hate. I don't know about you, but it was quite disturbing to me to see some of the comments this thread.


Peace,
brian
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Old 07-13-2011, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Italy
6,387 posts, read 5,107,186 times
Reputation: 866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
And, what proof do you have that he would never be released? Plus, if he was that crazy and evil, unless they kept him in solitary confinement, he could kill while in prison. Hmmm. . . what would be his punishment then -- another life sentence?



Who cares what the EU thinks? Again, it’s hilarious how pro-illegals whine about this scumbag not having an opportunity to meet with the Mexican Consulate. Mind you, he wouldn’t be considered a "Mexican" if it meant he could fleece taxpayers. Why are illegal aliens only “foreign nationals” when it suits their needs?

In any case, he’s dead. Too bad the EU doesn’t issue a statement regarding the countless violent crimes perpetrated by illegal aliens in this country. I would think it should also be considered a violation of international law for people to enter a country illegally and rape, murder, and pillage.
If a country wants to teach people to not kill, it ought to do it by example.


Peace,
brian
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