U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 09-20-2011, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Most executives at nonprofits make huge sums of money. The average CEO pay at nonprofits is something enormous, like $300k+. That's because these people are highly competent and need to be dissuaded from stick for profit private sector work.
Charity Navigator Rating - Southern Poverty Law Center
King of the Hate Business by Alexander Cockburn on Creators.com - A Syndicate Of Talent

When a hate crime is something to love - Article on the Southern Poverty Law Center - SPLC and Morris Dees

 
Old 09-20-2011, 12:04 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
So wait, if I find out someone at FAIR or CIS took home six figures can we insta-ban anyone ever citing them as a source ever again?
 
Old 09-20-2011, 01:11 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 875,884 times
Reputation: 227
The argumentum ad hominem is a logical fallacy that has no bearing on the actual analysis provided of these anti-immigration organizations.
 
Old 09-20-2011, 06:15 PM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,237,724 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
That's great about most people, assuming you're right. As I said, "immigrant" is still correct, even if it's less descriptive than "illegal immigrant" (which, it's worth noting, still includes the "immigrant" descriptor). The point is that when you say "they aren't immigrants" you are clearly and unequivocally wrong - they immigrated here.
Using the word immigrant by itself is lying by ommision.
 
Old 09-20-2011, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 1,237,724 times
Reputation: 410
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
Illustrative of the affinities between white supremacists and non-supremacist ethnic conspiracy theorists is the function of some non-supremacists as intermediaries between white supremacism and mainstream political activity.

For example, border militia organizer Glenn Spencer was a presenter alongside "racialist" Samuel Francis at the 2002 annual conference of American Renaissance, a white supremacist organization called a hate group by the Anti-Defamation League and the Southern Poverty Law Center.

AR on-line store - 2002 AR Conference — Samuel Francis and Glenn Spencer (http://store.amren.com/cart.php?target=product&product_id=2206 - broken link)



Since the late Francis was explicit regarding his belief about his ideological defense of the "white race," i.e. white nationalism, he would be unsuitable for participation in mainstream political events, but Spencer (who was present at the same white supremacist conference, but is not an explicit supremacist) is an acceptable intermediary.

Reconquista Conspiracy Theorist To Present Before The Arizona Senate Committee



A similar example is the trail that leads from Arizona governor Jan Brewer to state senator Russell Pearce, sponsor of Senate Bill 1070, which introduced more authoritarian measures for detaining persons suspected to be illegal immigrants, to J.T. Ready, a fascist active in the neo-Nazi movement.







A direct link between Brewer and Ready would likely be a political death blow to the governor, but Pearce functions as an intermediary in the same way.
To late, Agnapostate. More an more people want ILLEGAL aliens OUT an more an more people are gettin ready to do nasty things an hang with nasty people to do the deed.
 
Old 09-20-2011, 06:18 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
Using the word immigrant by itself is lying by ommision.
No, it's not
 
Old 09-20-2011, 06:36 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
Using the word immigrant by itself is lying by ommision.
Excellent, Erik!
 
Old 09-20-2011, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Metropolis
1,144 posts, read 3,255,825 times
Reputation: 640
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
What is not true?



This is not the topic of this thread. The topic of the thread is immigration and ethnic conspiracy theories.



Drawing associations between this illegal activity described and a specific ethnic group is the basis for the development of the ethnic conspiracy theory.



The word "racist" has a disputed meaning, and is not one I have used in this thread. Rather, I have claimed that there are affinities between white supremacists and some opponents of immigration, since both groups adhere to an ethnic conspiracy theory that involves Mexican/Mexican-American annexation of the U.S. Southwest from Anglo whites.

I also claimed that there was an important difference between the two groups' conception of this idea, with white supremacists attaching a significance to Mexicans' Indian admixture that non-supremacist opponents of immigration do not and are usually not aware of.



This is a reiteration of the ethnic conspiracy theory, but has already been disproved, since the leadership of major Hispanic advocacy organizations are generally white, and the ethnic stratification in Hispanic countries favors whites.



A desire to maintain the demographic dominance of whites and the belief that it is integral to "national identity" is exactly what is espoused on Stormfront and in white supremacist ideology. Are you claiming that this desire and belief are not indicative of white supremacism?



The topic of the thread is immigration and ethnic conspiracy theories.



This is an example of thread derailment and an apparent attempt at a red herring fallacy, and is also etymologically inaccurate, since the literal meaning of the term immigrant is rejected in favor of a preferred rhetorical meaning.



This is a strawman fallacy. It has been repeatedly clarified that some opponents of immigration who conceive of an influx of recent immigrants as an ethnic threat to the demography of the United States or the Southwestern region of the United States share affinities with white supremacists in this regard, though there are still differences in their beliefs in that white supremacists typically have developed views about the genetic inferiority of Mexican and Central American immigrants that the non-supremacist conspiracy theorists do not share.



This is a red herring fallacy, and apparently a tu quoque fallacy also, since the views of the National Council of La Raza are ascribed to ideological opponents on this forum.

It is also not logically coherent, since Hispanics are a multi-racial population, the National Council of La Raza therefore a multi-racial organization, and its internal structure probably hierarchically dominated by whites, as argued by the aforementioned published article.



This is another red herring fallacy.



An ad hominem attack is an irrelevant attack on a personal characteristic of an arguer rather than an argument itself. An example would be claiming that non-Americans' arguments regarding immigration to the U.S. can be rejected because they are made by non-citizens. Can you cite a specific example of this logical fallacy being used in this thread?





These respective comments explicitly and implicitly claim that the guilt by association fallacy has been used, and is therefore a logical weakness in the argument has been made. The guilt by association fallacy is a logical fallacy wherein a negative or disliked party is shown to hold a certain view, belief, or position, which is then used to invalidate that view when held by others.

Aside from the Hitler and vegetarianism example already mentioned, other examples would be the claim that Hitler was a Christian and a totalitarian, and therefore all Christians support totalitarianism, or the claim that Stalin was an atheist and a totalitarian, and therefore all atheists support totalitarianism.

However, the claim made here that the guilt by association fallacy has been used stems from a failure to understand the difference between beliefs that are tangentially related to the core of a person's worldview and beliefs that are fundamentally related to the core of a person's worldview.

In the case of the "culinary" views mentioned above (vegetarianism and sausages), there is a tangential relationship in that the same individuals who hold fascist views also hold views in favor of fascism. This would be distinct from a belief in ethnic cleansing or imperialistic annexation of territory that is considered part of the nation-state's homeland, which are fundamentally related to fascism, as opposed to being tangentially related.

In the case of Stormfront and white supremacists more generally, their belief that the U.S. Southwest is being demographically conquered by a foreign ethnic group that is hostile to Anglo whites is fundamentally related to their "racialist" worldviews, whereas their enjoyment of natural sausages is tangentially related only by virtue of having the same proponents endorse the idea, and is unrelated in a meaningful sense.


Wait a second.

Germany is known for its broad variety and long tradition of preparing sausages. German sausages, or Würste, cover uncooked and unfilled things (no casing)[citation needed], like Frankfurters/Wieners, Bratwürste, Rindswürste, Knackwürste, and Bockwürste.

and then there's;

"Hitler's asceticism played an important part in the image he projected over Germany. According to the widely believed legend he neither smoked nor drank, nor did he eat meat or have anything to do with women. Only the first was true. He drank beer and diluted wine frequently, had a special fondness for Bavarian sausages and kept a mistress....His asceticism was a fiction invented by Goebbels to emphasize his total dedication, his self-control, the distance that separated him from other men....In fact, he was remarkably self-indulgent and possessed none of the instincts of the ascetic. His cook, an enormously fat man named Willy Kannenberg, produced exquisite meals and acted as court jester. Although Hitler had no fondness for meat except in the form of sausages and never ate fish, he enjoyed caviar...." (p. 346)[18]

Hitler attempted to cover up his hidden desires for sausage due to it being linked with the mensche inferior races, such as those who eat chorizo (MEXICAN SAUSAGE.) Aha!!!!!!!


Nazi, sausage, Germany, fascism, racism, illegal immigration. You see the linkages don't you???
 
Old 09-21-2011, 09:41 AM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 875,884 times
Reputation: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanQuest View Post
Nazi, sausage, Germany, fascism, racism, illegal immigration. You see the linkages don't you???
Hitler was also a fan of Karl May novels, and the character Winnetou, so that preference for the same unter population must cancel out the sausage love.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top