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Old 07-11-2011, 03:17 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
Reputation: 111

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Attempting to paint forum members as mere racists is disgusting and inappropriate. Most people who are against illegal immigration are against it because it is contrary to their economic interests. Insisting that they are merely nothing more than vile racists does nothing but poison the well and shut down the discussion about real racism.

If hispanics come up when discussing illegal immigration it is for one fact and one fact only: because 80% are ALL illegals are Latino. I am Democrat. I am NOT voting for Senator Menendez for reelection because of this fact. If he wants to play identity politics -- and constantly speak for Latinos rather than the needs of all the residents of this state -- then let him face the consequences that non-Latinos will not vote for him.

You can't have it both ways as many seem to want to do on this issue. You can't advocate for your ethnic group and then ask others outside of your ethnic group to support you.

That's exactly what's going on with many supporters of illegal immigration. They are advocating policies that help their communities in the name of identity politics. When those policies directly hurt other members of the community who do not share their ethnicity all they have to say is scream racism.

That's not a convincing argument.
The OP is not "screaming racism." It's noting that the overbroad categorization that frequently accompanies prejudice is often present in posts on this board. You see this here all the time, where "pro-illegals" are grouped together as one monolithic entity without variation, and illegal immigrants are given attributes as a group. For every post you can find of us "pro-illegals" making overbroad generalizations about your side of this debate, I'd bet I could find 5 from your side. I'm not indicating that I feel everyone who does this is a racist. It's simply a tendency that lacks thoughtfulness and nuance and, yes, is often overused by people who hold prejudices against certain groups.

 
Old 07-11-2011, 04:12 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Attempting to paint forum members as mere racists is disgusting and inappropriate.
I agree. Luckily for us, even though racists will try to hide their racism with clever code words, if they talk enough eventually they'll spill the beans and reveal themselves.

Quote:
You can't have it both ways as many seem to want to do on this issue. You can't advocate for your ethnic group and then ask others outside of your ethnic group to support you.

That's exactly what's going on with many supporters of illegal immigration. They are advocating policies that help their communities in the name of identity politics. When those policies directly hurt other members of the community who do not share their ethnicity all they have to say is scream racism.

That's not a convincing argument.
Well, I'm a white guy.
 
Old 07-11-2011, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
I agree. Luckily for us, even though racists will try to hide their racism with clever code words, if they talk enough eventually they'll spill the beans and reveal themselves...
Exactly, and there are some that infiltrate forums like this for their own goals...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
...Well, I'm a white guy.
Yo tambien (I am too)...
 
Old 07-12-2011, 11:33 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
The OP is not "screaming racism." It's noting that the overbroad categorization that frequently accompanies prejudice is often present in posts on this board. You see this here all the time, where "pro-illegals" are grouped together as one monolithic entity without variation, and illegal immigrants are given attributes as a group. For every post you can find of us "pro-illegals" making overbroad generalizations about your side of this debate, I'd bet I could find 5 from your side. I'm not indicating that I feel everyone who does this is a racist. It's simply a tendency that lacks thoughtfulness and nuance and, yes, is often overused by people who hold prejudices against certain groups.
Accusing members of this board of sounding like a board devoted to the KKK is indeed accusing them of racism. This is nothing more than an attempt to shut down rational debate on this subject. If illegals are given attributes as a group it not because of racism. It is because of FACTUAL information that ties them together. You cannot ignore the fact that most illegals are Latino and the vast majority of them are far less educated than the average American. People have every right to object to those who would import them and place additional burdens on most Americans. We most certainly have the right to do when they argue the right to do so simply because they share the same language and culture as a senator from NJ.

Reducing everything to simple racism is ridiculous and smacks of desperation from those who cannot possibly win an argument on the facts. Your own idea of "nuance" is to simply essentially tell those of who are against illegal immigration (over and over again) that we are short sighted, lazy, monolingual, racist nationalists who simply cannot compete in a global economy because we are too dumb and arrogant. That may work in a college classroom but the in the real world it tends to get you ignored as a smug, naive twit.

As for the generalizations allegedly being made I daresay there are an equal number of generalizations being made by the pro illegal side. Worse, many such generalizations are made against specific forum members who have been called out in an inappropriate manner.
 
Old 07-12-2011, 11:55 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,127 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Accusing members of this board of sounding like a board devoted to the KKK is indeed accusing them of racism. This is nothing more than an attempt to shut down rational debate on this subject. If illegals are given attributes as a group it not because of racism. It is because of FACTUAL information that ties them together. You cannot ignore the fact that most illegals are Latino and the vast majority of them are far less educated than the average American. People have every right to object to those who would import them and place additional burdens on most Americans. We most certainly have the right to do when they argue the right to do so simply because they share the same language and culture as a senator from NJ.

Reducing everything to simple racism is ridiculous and smacks of desperation from those who cannot possibly win an argument on the facts. Your own idea of "nuance" is to simply essentially tell those of who are against illegal immigration (over and over again) that we are short sighted, lazy, monolingual, racist nationalists who simply cannot compete in a global economy because we are too dumb and arrogant. That may work in a college classroom but the in the real world it tends to get you ignored as a smug, naive twit.

As for the generalizations allegedly being made I daresay there are an equal number of generalizations being made by the pro illegal side. Worse, many such generalizations are made against specific forum members who have been called out in an inappropriate manner.
I mean, he's not "accusing" of racism. He linked to quotes on the topics from here and there, and no one can tell the difference. They are all quotes about ethnic groups, it's not it's Stormfront members talking about sports.

What generalizations have the pro-illegals made? Find some quotes.
 
Old 07-12-2011, 12:02 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,436 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
I mean, he's not "accusing" of racism. He linked to quotes on the topics from here and there, and no one can tell the difference. They are all quotes about ethnic groups, it's not it's Stormfront members talking about sports.

What generalizations have the pro-illegals made? Find some quotes.
He's linking to a racist board and implying there's no difference between them and those of us who post here. Of course he's accusing us of racism. It's a profoundly offensive way to unfairly tar those you disagree with and attempt to shut down discussion.

I reiterate: if hispanics and illegals are conflated it is because the vast majority of illegals are hispanic and because far too many hispanic leaders lobby in favor of continued massive illegal immigration solely because most illegals are hispanic just like they are. My very own senator illustrates that process completely. He cannot play identity politics and then argue that people who do not share his identity should vote for him. Particularly when his decision to do so is directly contrary to the economic interests of most of those he was elected to represent.

As for what you and your pro-illegal friends I am a busy person and I do not have time to go reread your comments. Anyone who has read what and your friends have written will understand exactly what I mean.
 
Old 07-12-2011, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Accusing members of this board of sounding like a board devoted to the KKK is indeed accusing them of racism...
The OP did nothing more than put the comments from both boards intermixed side-by-side. It's an interesting experiment. Stormfront may espouse some of the same principles and ideologies as the Ku Klux Klan, but the groups are not interlinked as far as I know (the Southern Poverty Law Center's "HateWatch" would be more definitive).
 
Old 07-12-2011, 01:20 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 875,884 times
Reputation: 227
The corresponding order is as follows:

1.Stormfront
2.Stormfront
3.Stormfront
4.Stormfront
5.City-Data; KsStorm
6.City-Data; chicagonut
7.Stormfront
8.City-Data; malamute
9.Stormfront
10.City-Data; malamute
11.Stormfront
12.City-Data; Benicar
13.City-Data; KsStorm
14.City-Data; kele
15.City-Data; All American NYC
16.Stormfront
17.Stormfront
18.City-Data; chicagonut
19.City-Data; All American NYC
 
Old 07-12-2011, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agnapostate View Post
The corresponding order is as follows:

1.Stormfront
2.Stormfront
3.Stormfront
4.Stormfront
5.City-Data; KsStorm
6.City-Data; chicagonut
7.Stormfront
8.City-Data; malamute
9.Stormfront
10.City-Data; malamute
11.Stormfront
12.City-Data; Benicar
13.City-Data; KsStorm
14.City-Data; kele
15.City-Data; All American NYC
16.Stormfront
17.Stormfront
18.City-Data; chicagonut
19.City-Data; All American NYC
Thank You for the spoiler...
 
Old 07-12-2011, 01:25 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 875,884 times
Reputation: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Thank You for the spoiler...
In addition, although I can't link to Stormfront, the authenticity of the quotes extracted from that forum can be established by entering them into search engines.
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