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Old 09-06-2007, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,418 posts, read 15,680,601 times
Reputation: 5185
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyFromTN View Post
I cannot understand why White nations continue to accept this burden, especially with no decernable benefit and it seems the majority of the people in both Europe and America are against this path we are going down.

So the question is: Who, or what interests and groups, are pushing this on us and slandering all those who speak out against massive third world immigration and it's negative affects on historically Caucasian nations?
Do you think this is all being orchestrated from a single group, which has infiltrated both political parties and the entire media (TV and press) corps? If so, what would be the gain and motivation?
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Old 09-06-2007, 12:52 PM
 
8,972 posts, read 10,335,176 times
Reputation: 2943
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizona Annie View Post
You misunderstand. The concern is over illegal immigrants, NOT legal immigrants. It would take too long to cover all the other misunderstandings in your post but that is the top one. I'm sorry you think so little of us. You probably don't realize you try to make a point when you say "How do you think you would feel if other countries started to say: 'We hate all American immigrants, they only cause trouble and should be thrown out of this country!!' ", but we aren't swarming into other countries illegally and stealing identities, overburdening their social services, getting free education for our children while demanding they teach them in English as well as the language of the country we are in, causing the closure of hospitals because of our use of hospitals as doctors offices for our free care, while their legal citizens cannot even afford medical care to save their lives, literally. Just to name a few of the issues.
You may want to consider this before you come to any other judgements about us; using Mexico as an example, look into their immigration laws. If you are illegal you can expect to be shot, not deported, SHOT! If you even attempted to protest in the streets (as they do in our streets, carrying the Mexican flag) you would be arrested and should not expect ever to see the light of day again. Now tell me again how we are just complaining.
Oh, and I DON'T hate illegal immigrants, I simply want them to follow the laws of this country, by entering it legally. I think you'll find the same is true of most of us.
Have a nice day.
Well said---succinctly stated. Your frustration with our European "critic" only serves to reinforce my own growing concern that apparently, any cultural "roots" once shared by the USA with Europe are rapidly dwindling into insignificance. Western Europe seems to have "devolved" so far from its western foundations into an Orwellian "Post-Christian" dystopia that it appears that soon we will be absolutely incapable of mutual understanding anymore.
Europeans seem to share a view of themselves as urbane sophisticates, entitled to "look down their noses" at us "Backwoods primitives", and assume that we look up to them for an enlightened, moderate counterbalance to our own barbaric world view.
But I honestly see little to envy in the socialist "dream" of Western Europe, and, with their headlong rush into an imaginary "multicultural paradise", and their supposed "delight" in the fact of their own illegal immigration problem (and their own abysmal birth rate), simple mathematics alone show that the Western Europeans will rapidly cease to exist as a culture---and I don't think the "new people" are nearly as interested in "getting along" as the Europeans are. In fact, I'd say most of the Muslim immigrants to Europe don't have much interest in multiculturalism at all.
Of course, I don't live there, and it's none of my business. But I sure don't envy them , either....
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Old 09-10-2007, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Mattituck
492 posts, read 37,358 times
Reputation: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by okaydorothy View Post
As If immigrants have children and cannot provide an american birth cert ; charge them maybe $100 per child per year of registration. I see it everyday in Farmingville.
d
$100 No WAY !!
More like $200,000.00 because that what those kids cost the taxpayer to school over 9 years !!!

I been to Farmingville its become a 3rd world cesspool, I have even been to the Walmart in Riverhead.
Was like being in Los Angelos Mexico !!
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Arizona (as if you couldn't tell) :)
547 posts, read 750,454 times
Reputation: 221
Thumbs up I agree Macmeal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Well said---succinctly stated. Your frustration with our European "critic" only serves to reinforce my own growing concern that apparently, any cultural "roots" once shared by the USA with Europe are rapidly dwindling into insignificance. Western Europe seems to have "devolved" so far from its western foundations into an Orwellian "Post-Christian" dystopia that it appears that soon we will be absolutely incapable of mutual understanding anymore.
Europeans seem to share a view of themselves as urbane sophisticates, entitled to "look down their noses" at us "Backwoods primitives", and assume that we look up to them for an enlightened, moderate counterbalance to our own barbaric world view.
But I honestly see little to envy in the socialist "dream" of Western Europe, and, with their headlong rush into an imaginary "multicultural paradise", and their supposed "delight" in the fact of their own illegal immigration problem (and their own abysmal birth rate), simple mathematics alone show that the Western Europeans will rapidly cease to exist as a culture---and I don't think the "new people" are nearly as interested in "getting along" as the Europeans are. In fact, I'd say most of the Muslim immigrants to Europe don't have much interest in multiculturalism at all.
Of course, I don't live there, and it's none of my business. But I sure don't envy them , either....
Thank you Macmeal. I don't envy them either and feel the same way about their immigration issues being none of my business. Too bad Sweden doesn't feel the same way about ours. He/She definately did seem to feel we should be interested in what he/she had to contribute to the forum. Almost like a parent scoulding a child. My grandparents immigrated from Norway (legally) but that doesn't mean I am interested in what Norway has to say about how we are handling or not handling our immigration issues. I have noticed Sweden hasn't contributed to this forum since the earlier exchange. Maybe we are getting the silent treatment because we were daring to question perceived "authority". Take care!
Annie
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Old 09-10-2007, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA (Inland Empire - Southern CA)
27 posts, read 38,107 times
Reputation: 18
Thumbs up Good for you okaydorothy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by okaydorothy View Post
As an immigrant myself ; I came here 21 years ago. Yes, I was illegal. I admit that, but I did marry my boyfriend and set up a life here. We have been together for 25 years.

But ; I never sponged off the government, we had children when we could afford them, we worked hard. I worked as a nanny in nyc, worked 60-70 hours a week raising childrn of the wealthy. I never went on food stamps, wic, waited until I could afford healthcare etc etc.

21 years later, we are still here. NY has been very good to us. It has enabled us to get ahead, helped us to mature. I am a citizen now and every time I hear the National Anthem I feel so proud to be here, I get goosebumps at every baseball game. My children know and respect everthing American.

They also know their heritage. We go home every year to visit.

My opinion of illegals ; if they sue, send them back, if they are on any kind of welfare, send them back. I always thought in the immigration papers you had to proove that you could maintain yourself and not become a burden to society. In the immigration proceedings, also you are required to speak english ; how come there are translators??

If immigrants have children and cannot provide an american birth cert ; charge them maybe $100 per child per year of registration. Also if we need more people in the armed forces, sign them up and maybe after 4 years of service then they get a work permit, then maybe 2 years later if they can proove that they are not a burden on society, give them their earned green card.

There is a difference between those that come here to work and stay and those that are here just to sponge.

I see it everyday in Farmingville.
d
Many American Citizens (natural and naturalized alike) feel frustration at the litany of current immigration ills.

You seem to be an EXCEPTION to this problem, and NOT the focus of this frustration.

I'd like to congratulate you on:

a. Your skill development.
b. An ethical and responsible approach to living in your new home.
c. The results of your efforts.
d. Remembering and respecting your roots.
e. And, your citizenship!

If all immigrants acted the way you have, far less vehemence would be posted here and on myriad other forums regarding the situation.

Some points (this applies to the mass of illegal - and some legal immigrants...and NOT THE EXCEPTION TO THE RULE immigrants like you, Dorothy) to consider:

Early immigrants: (legal or illegal) did as you...learned the English language (or tried), worked at any job they could get (or were supported by sponsors), tried to get an education, and learned to love America first, while maintaining a deep love for their roots and culture. They may have had problems with some aspect of our government, but most operated within its rules and regulations, and swore allegiance to it (many gave their lives in defense of our way of life throughout the world as honored members of the U.S. Military).

Todays immigrants (remember: on the whole, NOT exceptions to the rule), love their home country first, tolerate our government while stealing from it, refuse to learn to understand and speak it's language, flaunt their arrogance in our faces, ignore most of our laws (remember, they're ALREADY CRIMINALS if here illegally), fail to pay taxes (while sending billions of dollars of revenue back to their families in their true home), suck the lifeblood our of our social services, and are contributing to to our National demise (rather than defense).

LEGAL IMMIGRANTS were responsible for building our Nation. Even the American Indian is an immigrant, entering this territory from the north...legally (although laws, as we know them today, were nonexistent).

If America fails, it will be largely due to the influx of illegal immigrants (careful here...NOT the exception-to-the-rule immigrant), who have infected this nation with an attitude of "take, take, take," while refusing to give something other than their labor for cash dollars back.

* Hospital closings due to free immigrant care.
* Closed or unsafe parks due to infestation with non-tax paying users (of course, other groups, like the homeless, which is a completely different topic, infect them besides illegals).
* Myriad legal fees and awards which cannot be collected by responsible people in accidents with illegals.
* Over crowded schools.
* A government system with the cancer of ESL (English as a Second Language) philosophy.
* Unsafe streets where those illegals that drive (and legals that copy them) rarely have insurance.
* Crowded and shrinking social services abused by illegals.
* Filthy streets, where waste is scattered (not just a problem of illegals, but look at some of the communities in which there are a large population of them).
* The list is virtually endless...

ILLEGALS will take us down. Unless our laws make significant changes and we repatriate them....

A QUICK FIX:

Repatriation: send ALL illegals (and their offspring) back to their nation of origin. This should NOT be a matter of the courts, but National Legislation, mandated to the States, under the control of the Department of Homeland Security, and automatically done, free from the burden of the court (why should illegals be given Constitutional rights granted to US Citizens?).

We've repatriated millions in our Nations past. At least twice through some of my readings, possibly more. If a person is picked up and does not have paperwork, or is not listed in a national registry...deport him/her within 24 hours...automatically...no red tape...no bureaucracy...no court...no sitting at taxpayer's expense in a jail hotel with free food, medical care and an interpreter....just one day...caught and repatriated...not deported.

ADDITIONAL STEPS:

Beef up the borders to keep them out. Not just from the south either. Many come through Canada, and along the coasts. Invest in the infrastructure to catch them before entering...costs less than the damage later.

Coast guard, immigration, Border Patrol, all need additional funding and the most current hard and software available for prevention, tracking, and enforcement. Also, corruption in those offices needs to be a capital offense. Few would chance forfeiting their lives to take graft from an illegal...or take advantage of one (yes, I am compassionate for ANY human...I even pray for our enemies).

By the way...I'd support, and feel we need a documented worker program, where registered aliens are allowed to enter the country to work...but it needs strictly enforced regulations, swift punishment with little delay for infractions, and fingerprint, blood/dna matching and photo identification cards (almost eliminates fraudulent ID's), for registered workers who would pay SOME taxes on the money they earn. Other services they choose to use while here would NOT be free either. If they get sick, send them home.

There is a lot more...I've said enough.

Thanks for the opportunity.

God Bless America!

Remember September 11th, and fly your flag!
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Old 09-11-2007, 06:49 AM
CBB
 
Location: Munich + FL, 32082
481 posts, read 1,441,349 times
Reputation: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Well said---succinctly stated. Your frustration with our European "critic" only serves to reinforce my own growing concern that apparently, any cultural "roots" once shared by the USA with Europe are rapidly dwindling into insignificance. Western Europe seems to have "devolved" so far from its western foundations into an Orwellian "Post-Christian" dystopia that it appears that soon we will be absolutely incapable of mutual understanding anymore.
Europeans seem to share a view of themselves as urbane sophisticates, entitled to "look down their noses" at us "Backwoods primitives", and assume that we look up to them for an enlightened, moderate counterbalance to our own barbaric world view.
But I honestly see little to envy in the socialist "dream" of Western Europe, and, with their headlong rush into an imaginary "multicultural paradise", and their supposed "delight" in the fact of their own illegal immigration problem (and their own abysmal birth rate), simple mathematics alone show that the Western Europeans will rapidly cease to exist as a culture---and I don't think the "new people" are nearly as interested in "getting along" as the Europeans are. In fact, I'd say most of the Muslim immigrants to Europe don't have much interest in multiculturalism at all.
Of course, I don't live there, and it's none of my business. But I sure don't envy them , either....
What makes you think that mutual understanding seems to disappear because "Western Europe seems to have "devolved" so far from its western foundations into an Orwellian "Post-Christian" dystopia". Maybe a part of the "problem" is that America has become very neocon and fundamentally Christian over the last decade? Or both "trends" together cause this?

And where do you get this conclusion from?
"Europeans seem to share a view of themselves as urbane sophisticates, entitled to "look down their noses" at us "Backwoods primitives", and assume that we look up to them for an enlightened, moderate counterbalance to our own barbaric world view." From Sweden's post?

Or this?
"But I honestly see little to envy in the socialist "dream" of Western Europe, and, with their headlong rush into an imaginary "multicultural paradise", and their supposed "delight" in the fact of their own illegal immigration problem"

I also thought that Sweden's post was odd, so you shouldn't assume that she is THE expert on European issues in this forum and every Western European thinks like her!

There are certainly Europeans (as well as Americans, btw) who look at America that way, and some are socialists and/or embrace a multicultural society. But you have to look quite hard to find them. I tend to think that my opinion (did you read my post on the previous page?) is much more common. Europeans are no masochists. Why should we embrace illegal immigration or millions of Muslims who don't assimilate?
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Old 09-11-2007, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska (most of the time)
1,163 posts, read 2,379,776 times
Reputation: 1676
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBB View Post
What makes you think that mutual understanding seems to disappear because "Western Europe seems to have "devolved" so far from its western foundations into an Orwellian "Post-Christian" dystopia". Maybe a part of the "problem" is that America has become very neocon and fundamentally Christian over the last decade? Or both "trends" together cause this?

And where do you get this conclusion from?
"Europeans seem to share a view of themselves as urbane sophisticates, entitled to "look down their noses" at us "Backwoods primitives", and assume that we look up to them for an enlightened, moderate counterbalance to our own barbaric world view." From Sweden's post?

Or this?
"But I honestly see little to envy in the socialist "dream" of Western Europe, and, with their headlong rush into an imaginary "multicultural paradise", and their supposed "delight" in the fact of their own illegal immigration problem"

I also thought that Sweden's post was odd, so you shouldn't assume that she is THE expert on European issues in this forum and every Western European thinks like her!

There are certainly Europeans (as well as Americans, btw) who look at America that way, and some are socialists and/or embrace a multicultural society. But you have to look quite hard to find them. I tend to think that my opinion (did you read my post on the previous page?) is much more common. Europeans are no masochists. Why should we embrace illegal immigration or millions of Muslims who don't assimilate?
I agree. I haven't said I am THE expert, nor that I speak the the opinion of the ENTIRE European people. Come on! We're 47 DIFFERENT coutries and well over 300 million people here. It would be like saying that ALL Americans are like George W Bush or Paris Hilton etc... I speak MY opinion, just like you speak YOUR! I know many Americans who doesn't think like anyone on this forum, so I KNOW not everyone in the US thinks like you. That's just common sense.

But I am VERY thankful that SOMEONE has finally noticed that it's SHE and not HE. Frankly, the fact that something THAT easily corrected could go on for that long as facts...It only proves that you cannot trust all that is being said here. If you don't look that up but just assume it's correct just because SOMEONE ELSE said it was a he, then why wouldn't this be true in the other supposed "facts" about immigrants and their privileges?

I am NOT promoting illegal immigration or unlimited legal immigration. Not at all. Anywhere. It only causes problems. Everywhere.
I am just so fed up with the opinion that ALL problems in the US are due to immigrants. Be it legal or illegal (Don't try anything. Legals are complained about too, just not in this perticular thread).
I've had death row penpals that were ALL born by American parents and ALL patriots. Not immigrants unwilling to assimilate. Americans.
Saying everything is the immigrants fault (which seems to be the general opinion on this forum) would be like me saying that "there are NO Swedish criminals. Every single person in prison are immigrants. No Swede would do anyone harm. Ever".
The things being said about illegal immigrants "killing and going free" doesn't take into account that this is happening in the same extent or even more so when dealing with American criminals. (Don't think I don't know anything about your statistics. I've studied them for years. And they're all over TV as well. I have grounds for what I say.)

Things going wrong isn't just the immigrants fault. Get over it.
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Old 09-11-2007, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Arizona (as if you couldn't tell) :)
547 posts, read 750,454 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
I agree. I haven't said I am THE expert, nor that I speak the the opinion of the ENTIRE European people. Come on! We're 47 DIFFERENT coutries and well over 300 million people here. It would be like saying that ALL Americans are like George W Bush or Paris Hilton etc... I speak MY opinion, just like you speak YOUR! I know many Americans who doesn't think like anyone on this forum, so I KNOW not everyone in the US thinks like you. That's just common sense.

But I am VERY thankful that SOMEONE has finally noticed that it's SHE and not HE. Frankly, the fact that something THAT easily corrected could go on for that long as facts...It only proves that you cannot trust all that is being said here. If you don't look that up but just assume it's correct just because SOMEONE ELSE said it was a he, then why wouldn't this be true in the other supposed "facts" about immigrants and their privileges?

I am NOT promoting illegal immigration or unlimited legal immigration. Not at all. Anywhere. It only causes problems. Everywhere.
I am just so fed up with the opinion that ALL problems in the US are due to immigrants. Be it legal or illegal (Don't try anything. Legals are complained about too, just not in this perticular thread).
I've had death row penpals that were ALL born by American parents and ALL patriots. Not immigrants unwilling to assimilate. Americans.
Saying everything is the immigrants fault (which seems to be the general opinion on this forum) would be like me saying that "there are NO Swedish criminals. Every single person in prison are immigrants. No Swede would do anyone harm. Ever".
The things being said about illegal immigrants "killing and going free" doesn't take into account that this is happening in the same extent or even more so when dealing with American criminals. (Don't think I don't know anything about your statistics. I've studied them for years. And they're all over TV as well. I have grounds for what I say.)

Things going wrong isn't just the immigrants fault. Get over it.
I don't believe anyone on this forum or any of the others (at least the ones I have read) ever said all our ills are due to immigrants (legal or illegal). We have tried to be very specific in explaining what we are going through. Most issues we have discussed here are things we have witnessed personally and know as fact. By the way, I personally could care less if you are a he or a she or somewhere in between, I am strictly listening to what you are saying and passing judgement on the content of your posts, not the author.
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Old 09-11-2007, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Lake Elsinore, CA (Inland Empire - Southern CA)
27 posts, read 38,107 times
Reputation: 18
Default Just a couple of questions for Sweden

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweden View Post
I agree. I haven't said I am THE expert, nor that I speak the the opinion of the ENTIRE European people. Come on! We're 47 DIFFERENT coutries and well over 300 million people here. It would be like saying that ALL Americans are like George W Bush or Paris Hilton etc... I speak MY opinion, just like you speak YOUR! I know many Americans who doesn't think like anyone on this forum, so I KNOW not everyone in the US thinks like you. That's just common sense.

But I am VERY thankful that SOMEONE has finally noticed that it's SHE and not HE. Frankly, the fact that something THAT easily corrected could go on for that long as facts...It only proves that you cannot trust all that is being said here. If you don't look that up but just assume it's correct just because SOMEONE ELSE said it was a he, then why wouldn't this be true in the other supposed "facts" about immigrants and their privileges?

I am NOT promoting illegal immigration or unlimited legal immigration. Not at all. Anywhere. It only causes problems. Everywhere.
I am just so fed up with the opinion that ALL problems in the US are due to immigrants. Be it legal or illegal (Don't try anything. Legals are complained about too, just not in this perticular thread).
I've had death row penpals that were ALL born by American parents and ALL patriots. Not immigrants unwilling to assimilate. Americans.
Saying everything is the immigrants fault (which seems to be the general opinion on this forum) would be like me saying that "there are NO Swedish criminals. Every single person in prison are immigrants. No Swede would do anyone harm. Ever".
The things being said about illegal immigrants "killing and going free" doesn't take into account that this is happening in the same extent or even more so when dealing with American criminals. (Don't think I don't know anything about your statistics. I've studied them for years. And they're all over TV as well. I have grounds for what I say.)

Things going wrong isn't just the immigrants fault. Get over it.

Lets use the nation of Sweden for an example:

1) Has the liberal establishment in your country brokered laws to make Sweden's primary language a second one, just for the appeasement of immigrants?

Ours did here, under the guise of "minority protection."

2) Have your schools been overrun by children of illegals to the point of crowding to twice the "acceptable" student to teacher ratios?

Ours did here, under the guise of "minority alien protection."

3) Have your hospitals and clinics been overrun by users who pay no taxes, contribute little to the local economies, and give nothing back?

Our have. Oh wait, does Sweden have free medical care for anyone anytime? If so, this question is moot...not relative in a Social State.

4) Have your entitlement programs (here: Social Security, Welfare, WIC, etc.) been overrun by millions who were granted entry to the system at older ages, without contributions when working at younger ages?

Ours have.

We could ask similar questions about European countries too.

It's hard to compare an apple to an orange, but the United States of America is a little different from MOST European nations. We were founded by immigrants who established a common Nation, with multiple cultures, and a Constitution that granted EVERY CITIZEN the "...right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...."

Nowhere in our Constitution does it guarantee a 60 year old (or 18 year old) illegal (criminal), the rights it gives to a US born or naturalized CITIZEN.

You have a right to your opinions...

I just wish you'd leave the personality out of it...for it would make better reading.
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Old 09-11-2007, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Anchorage, Alaska (most of the time)
1,163 posts, read 2,379,776 times
Reputation: 1676
Default Your point being? What's the difference?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LhasaPoo View Post
Lets use the nation of Sweden for an example:

1) Has the liberal establishment in your country brokered laws to make Sweden's primary language a second one, just for the appeasement of immigrants?

Ours did here, under the guise of "minority protection."
Yes, it pretty much have. You don't have to learn Swedish. Just learn English so we can understand you. Otherwise, we provide the translators. No difference here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LhasaPoo View Post
2) Have your schools been overrun by children of illegals to the point of crowding to twice the "acceptable" student to teacher ratios?

Ours did here, under the guise of "minority alien protection."
Not by illegals, but by legal immigrants and people fleeing wars (may I add the wars have mostly been American induced? But do we complain about you? No.) It is a huge concern these days. The students are growing in number, but due to too little money, the teachers are being fired. No difference here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LhasaPoo View Post
3) Have your hospitals and clinics been overrun by users who pay no taxes, contribute little to the local economies, and give nothing back?

Our have. Oh wait, does Sweden have free medical care for anyone anytime? If so, this question is moot...not relative in a Social State.
Yes, we have free medical care. But that only means it's even MORE depending on people paying taxes like they should. Which many don't. No difference here either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LhasaPoo View Post
4) Have your entitlement programs (here: Social Security, Welfare, WIC, etc.) been overrun by millions who were granted entry to the system at older ages, without contributions when working at younger ages?

Ours have.
Easy answer? Yes. Again, no difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LhasaPoo View Post
We could ask similar questions about European countries too.
I'm sorry, I don't get this. First I have to deffend my country as being a country on it's own and not "Europe", and now you say we're not even in Europe?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LhasaPoo View Post
It's hard to compare an apple to an orange, but the United States of America is a little different from MOST European nations. We were founded by immigrants who established a common Nation, with multiple cultures, and a Constitution that granted EVERY CITIZEN the "...right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...."

Nowhere in our Constitution does it guarantee a 60 year old (or 18 year old) illegal (criminal), the rights it gives to a US born or naturalized CITIZEN.
In many European countries you don't have to be a CITIZEN to have rights and privileges. Just being a human being is enough. And we cope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LhasaPoo View Post
You have a right to your opinions...

I just wish you'd leave the personality out of it...for it would make better reading.
This made NO sense what so ever. Please explain. I've spoken my opinion. Nothing else. Just like everyone else.
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