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Old 09-26-2011, 10:29 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,967,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
Like I said the numbers don't compute. There are about 33 million Mexicans (or of Mexican descent) in the U.S., a recent article said there are 10.8 million illegals in the U.S., but since only 57% of those illegals are Mexican there would be 6.1 million illegal Mexicans. 6.1/33 = about 18% not 52%.

I know a lot of people don't believe that figure even wikipedia says that the estimates for illegals range from 12-19 million. Now let's assume there are 19 million illegals, then we take the 57% of Mexicans from that 19 million giving us 10.8 million illegal Mexicans. However, even with that number it would be 32% not the 52% stated earlier.
Well first of all, "Mexican descent" wouldn't mean someone is Mexican as Mexican would imply a citizen of Mexico, not an American citizen. It wouldn't be right to include someone whose great grandparents or grandparents came from Mexico as legal Mexicans any more than you'd call someone with Irish or Polish great grandparents as legal Irish or Polish immigrants.

And then when you look at many of those who came here from Mexico, such as those who arrived here to get in on the 1980's amnesty, many of them have attained US citizenship by now.

I'm going by people I know who were actually born in Mexico. Many are no longer citizens of that country, they went for US citizenship so count as Americans. There are plenty of citizens of Mexico living here legally but I think they are definitely outnumbered by those who are here illegally.

And like your figures show, the 52% doesn't begin to account for all the illegals here.
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
1,164 posts, read 1,284,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Well first of all, "Mexican descent" wouldn't mean someone is Mexican as Mexican would imply a citizen of Mexico, not an American citizen. It wouldn't be right to include someone whose great grandparents or grandparents came from Mexico as legal Mexicans any more than you'd call someone with Irish or Polish great grandparents as legal Irish or Polish immigrants.

And then when you look at many of those who came here from Mexico, such as those who arrived here to get in on the 1980's amnesty, many of them have attained US citizenship by now.

I'm going by people I know who were actually born in Mexico. Many are no longer citizens of that country, they went for US citizenship so count as Americans. There are plenty of citizens of Mexico living here legally but I think they are definitely outnumbered by those who are here illegally.
Why wouldn't you include those of Mexican descent, the stat said legal Mexicans meaning their including those of Mexican descent like me (I was born in the U.S. but my parents were born in Mexico).
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Old 09-26-2011, 10:48 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,967,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
Why wouldn't you include those of Mexican descent, the stat said legal Mexicans meaning their including those of Mexican descent like me (I was born in the U.S. but my parents were born in Mexico).
Because at least some of "Mexican descent" actually are Americans and are as American as anyone else. For example one friend of mine had one grandparent from Mexico, the other three grandparents were born in the USA but also "Mexican descent" so that makes him Mexican descent but he never lived in Mexico, doesn't speak Spanish -- he tried but found it difficult to learn. He's not an immigrant and and isn't in the category of "legal immigrant" any more than I am.

So I don't think "Mexican descent" counts as far as putting someone in the category of legal Mexican. I would view that category as those who came from Mexico, are not US citizens but here legally -- for example those here with work visas.
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,030,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
Why wouldn't you include those of Mexican descent, the stat said legal Mexicans meaning their including those of Mexican descent like me (I was born in the U.S. but my parents were born in Mexico).
Pew-Hispanic typically doesn't consider those that have naturalized - even though they may have been born in Mexico - as "Mexican". Recent census statistics were based on who was identifying themselves as "Mexican", a much larger group. Basically Pew-Hispanic is saying about 6 million Mexicans as legal immigrants have not naturalized yet.

Just a few years ago the U.S. Consulate in Ciudad Juarez (the only processing location in Mexico for Immigrant Visas or K-category entrance visas) was said to be the busiest in the world, finalizing 800 to 1000 petitions every weekday that is not a Mexican and/or American holiday. It is an Ellis Island for Mexico, with the same style of waiting rooms. And two years back they moved to a much larger complex.

Malamute is always going to mix it up with his diatribes - Just learn to pay as much attention to his information as I do...

Absolutely zero...
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:29 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
1,164 posts, read 1,284,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Because at least some of "Mexican descent" actually are Americans and are as American as anyone else. For example one friend of mine had one grandparent from Mexico, the other three grandparents were born in the USA but also "Mexican descent" so that makes him Mexican descent but he never lived in Mexico, doesn't speak Spanish -- he tried but found it difficult to learn. He's not an immigrant and and isn't in the category of "legal immigrant" any more than I am.

So I don't think "Mexican descent" counts as far as putting someone in the category of legal Mexican. I would view that category as those who came from Mexico, are not US citizens but here legally -- for example those here with work visas.
I see, I still think it's misleading since there are some Americans who still call themselves Mexican (because they think of it as a race, even though it's not). I know that a lot people confuse nationality with ethnicity and often times some people of Mexican descent say their Mexican when asked what they are (using my anecdotal experience).

Either-way, I still defend them because I hate to see how they're insulted or looked down upon. I'm appalled by some of the comments the other Latinos here are making about Mexicans (it's like their insulting me as well).
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:34 AM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
1,164 posts, read 1,284,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Pew-Hispanic typically doesn't consider those that have naturalized - even though they may have been born in Mexico - as "Mexican". Recent census statistics were based on who was identifying themselves as "Mexican", a much larger group. Basically Pew-Hispanic is saying about 6 million Mexicans as legal immigrants have not naturalized yet.

Just a few years ago the U.S. Consulate in Ciudad Juarez (the only processing location in Mexico for Immigrant Visas or K-category entrance visas) was said to be the busiest in the world, finalizing 800 to 1000 petitions every weekday that is not a Mexican and/or American holiday. It is an Ellis Island for Mexico, with the same style of waiting rooms. And two years back they moved to a much larger complex.

Malamute is always going to mix it up with his diatribes - Just learn to pay as much attention to his information as I do...

Absolutely zero...
I see, thanks for the heads up.
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:50 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,030,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
I see, thanks for the heads up.
De nada...

It's just a group norm to talk smack about Mexicans here - Many get uncomfortable when talk shifts to illegal immigrants of non-Latino countries...
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:02 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,967,072 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
I see, I still think it's misleading since there are some Americans who still call themselves Mexican (because they think of it as a race, even though it's not). I know that a lot people confuse nationality with ethnicity and often times some people of Mexican descent say their Mexican when asked what they are (using my anecdotal experience).

Either-way, I still defend them because I hate to see how they're insulted or looked down upon. I'm appalled by some of the comments the other Latinos here are making about Mexicans (it's like their insulting me as well).
I suppose with dual citizenship, it's also more blurred but another example would be a woman I know who was from Mexico but married an American, she obtained American citizenship, has raised a couple very American kids and she calls herself an American but doesn't deny she came from Mexico.

I would also not count her in with Mexicans living here legally even though she once was that but she's now a US citizen.

The problem with the ethnicity confusion is that some "chicanos" or whatever you want to call them have never stepped foot in Mexico, nor have their parents, nor their grandparents and also "Mexican descent" can even mean those who never immigrated at all but whose families lived in New Mexico or Texas and never lived south of the current border. I can't see categorizing them in with someone that just showed up from Mexico legally or otherwise.

I think the statistics are about people who are citizens of Mexico living here, who have not become US citizens, and so it's easy to see how illegals would outnumber legals, I think more than 52%.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:14 AM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,899 posts, read 15,378,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Thanks for speaking the truth. This is a Mexican illegal alien movement, period. And, I agree with LuckyGem, it’s time for others to speak up. Mexican illegal aliens have sullied the image of all Spanish-speaking immigrants, and citizens alike. Prior to their invasion, we did not have these issues. No one gave a second thought to hearing Spanish. Nor did anyone assume Hispanics were here illegally. Now, even Hispanics are questioning the status of other Hispanics. I know this is true, because I have close relationships with quite a few.
And i also as usual agree with you. But you have stated truth. Some of my best friends are Mexican Americans, and they question their nationality, because of this situation with illegal immigration, and they hate it. They hate the fact, that someone can misinterpet them for being illegals, and it bothers them so much. They were born in this Country, does not matter to them.
Unless others start to speak up, and we have a Government who turns a blinds eye to this immigration problem, nothing will ever be resolved.
My Mexican Friends, cannot stand illegals from Mexico, they resent them believe me.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:51 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,192,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
De nada...

It's just a group norm to talk smack about Mexicans here - Many get uncomfortable when talk shifts to illegal immigrants of non-Latino countries...
Wrong, unless those Mexicans are here illegally there is no "smack talk" about them. The only exception would be the legal kind that think their national/ethnic group should be above our immigration laws and rewarded for violating them. Learn to know the difference.
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