Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 07-16-2011, 01:18 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,460,589 times
Reputation: 22471

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by medvall View Post
Exactly - in about 10-15 years the entire country will be doing only paperwork instead as demanded by regulations and the legal system. There won't be any time left for actual work - just 1020, 940, 941, W2, W3, monthly deposits and reports, workers comp, insurance this, insurance that, inspection this, permit that.

The foreign debt will be at 200,000 dollars per citizen and the whole country will implode and go bankrupt.

The US does not have a problem with foreign (legal nor illegal workers) - you have a problem with yourselves and with your government.

The day you put ACTUAL WORK before paperwork, insurance, permits, 1099s and being scared of 1000 options for lawsuits you will be on the path to the future.

You create value for all Americans by focusing on CREATING something. The FACT that 80 % of all PhDs in chemical engineering and orange pickers are foreigners is irrelevant on the bigger scale.

20 million illegal day laborers just proves that US citizens prefer unlicensed labor for the simpler jobs in life.
Well -- true.

We need a government that is for us, by us, about us - all that.

It's much cheaper at this point to bring in foreigners really - why not close down the schools? An American cannot afford the tuition rates, especially when foreigners can be brought in who will work much more cheaply. The foreigner comes in debt-free but the American needs that extra just to pay off what could be life-long college debt.

It's costing $10,000 to $12,000 a child a year now in our public schools. Why bother? You can easily bring in foreigners to work any job. And it's a pure joke to educate the illegals since that only puts them in with the expensively educated Americans who then expect better than dirt pay.

And really how foolish that we have to provide free health care to the cheap illegals when they are injured on the job or when they give birth, that just makes them unaffordable to society as a whole.

Maybe you're right, Americans can simply live off their inheritances and stock holdings and all workers can be brought in, legals to do the high paying jobs, illegals to do the low paying ones. Too bad we don't have the big oil like the Saudis do to support this kind of system.

Our costly educational system is preparing us well for this system - except it's far too costly itself when we can outsource and insource to foreigners for everything.

 
Old 07-16-2011, 01:39 PM
 
26 posts, read 30,223 times
Reputation: 12
I can tell you I am a foreigner - I choose not to live in the US since I cannot stand living in a country where taxes are so high (and spent on so much $hit) and half the population is just standing around pissing on the best constitution in the world, be it the IRS, TSA and all other agencies trying to impose controls.

This is a good read: http://research.stlouisfed.org/publi...rrettRhine.pdf

All you need to do is give Grover Norquist 5 years and things will be back in shape.

In everything you describe below you do not have an issue with illegal aliens, just your own government.

You get the citizens you deserve in the end - THE REAL AMERICANS, true to the constitution, are leaving the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Well -- true.

We need a government that is for us, by us, about us - all that.

It's much cheaper at this point to bring in foreigners really - why not close down the schools? An American cannot afford the tuition rates, especially when foreigners can be brought in who will work much more cheaply. The foreigner comes in debt-free but the American needs that extra just to pay off what could be life-long college debt.

It's costing $10,000 to $12,000 a child a year now in our public schools. Why bother? You can easily bring in foreigners to work any job. And it's a pure joke to educate the illegals since that only puts them in with the expensively educated Americans who then expect better than dirt pay.

And really how foolish that we have to provide free health care to the cheap illegals when they are injured on the job or when they give birth, that just makes them unaffordable to society as a whole.

Maybe you're right, Americans can simply live off their inheritances and stock holdings and all workers can be brought in, legals to do the high paying jobs, illegals to do the low paying ones. Too bad we don't have the big oil like the Saudis do to support this kind of system.

Our costly educational system is preparing us well for this system - except it's far too costly itself when we can outsource and insource to foreigners for everything.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 02:00 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,460,589 times
Reputation: 22471
Quote:
Originally Posted by medvall View Post
I can tell you I am a foreigner - I choose not to live in the US since I cannot stand living in a country where taxes are so high (and spent on so much $hit) and half the population is just standing around pissing on the best constitution in the world, be it the IRS, TSA and all other agencies trying to impose controls.

This is a good read: http://research.stlouisfed.org/publi...rrettRhine.pdf

All you need to do is give Grover Norquist 5 years and things will be back in shape.

In everything you describe below you do not have an issue with illegal aliens, just your own government.

You get the citizens you deserve in the end - THE REAL AMERICANS, true to the constitution, are leaving the country.
Yes, plus it was different when much of the US was very sparsely inhabited and there were 40 acres to give to Homesteaders.

In the past many immigrants came here but found the life hard and returned home in a short time, not the slaves because they couldn't go home but many others, about a third of immigrants didn't adjust so well or just decided they preferred home and returned.

It's not the same any more with all the social programs, the housing subsidies, the Medicaid which just keeps growing an growing in number of recipients. And we're not looking forward to a Industrial Revolution that could provide plenty of jobs for all who want them.

Now that we gave all that away, we don't need unlimited numbers of cheap workers.

Having expensive OSHA laws, workman's comp, health insurance benefits, paid vacation, mandatory breaks, FLMA, and of course sky high taxes on employees like SS, FICA, Medicare makes the costs of labor too high now. I'll admit we're over-regulated. Even if I bring in some illegal to do the roof work I don't want to hire an American to do, there are cases where illegals have sued homeowners for injuries they suffered while on the job.

I think even injured day workers can sue you under our laws, many might not know they can or they find seeking the taxpayer provided care good enough. For that reason beside the fact that I don't believe in hiring illegals, I think it's better in today's USA to go with licensed and bonded companies where they provide insurance and workman's comp to their employees.

Somewhere there should be a balance between a nanny state and one that allows exploitation and abuse of the people.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 02:10 PM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,460,589 times
Reputation: 22471
Quote:
Originally Posted by medvall View Post
In everything you describe below you do not have an issue with illegal aliens, just your own government.
And yes you are right here also. In a way I don't have a beef with illegals in themselves.

I do have a beef when I see my property taxes which include the free schools and free hospital for them. I pay far more for the free care of others than I spend on my own family's health care. Illegals can simply show up to an Emergency room and never expect to pay a co-pay, their hospital bill or even the ER visit. I pay it for them.

I have a big beef when I see the illegals with their large broods waddling through the grocery stores filling up their carts and paying with WIC and food stamps. Even if we wanted a system to provide for those Americans who cannot afford their kids, we cannot afford a system that allows anyone from anywhere to cash in.

I know plenty of illegals. I know them enough to know the inside of their lives, how many years it's been since they've seen their children and the arrangements many have made for those children.

That alone makes me against the whole thing. The most responsible hard working illegals who don't come here to use our government programs, realize they cannot take the low wages here and bring children in with our high living costs.

Having children grow up without their parents is not at all good. The parents belong with their children, including the young mothers who leave behind their babies to become the cheap nannies of Americans.

Once we had the Bracero program for temporary and seasonal workers who at least could go back and forth and spend time every few months with their families but it was Cesar Chavez and the UFW who helped put a stop to that. They wanted the higher wages and better benefits and knew there was a connection with that and cheap foreign workers.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 02:28 PM
 
26 posts, read 30,223 times
Reputation: 12
You have an unlimited number of cheap workers, you just don't want them within the borders. There is a natural flow of people wanting a better life all the time, if they come for government benefits you will fill your country with trash, if they come for work you will fill your country with the future.

If unskilled labor costs in the US go up 20 % the rest of the production industry will shut down and move to El Salvador.

Anyone can sue for anything. An illegal I would say is 10 times less likely to sue and 10 times more likely to take a cash settlement on the spot.

Illegal workers is just a mechanism of the market place. It is not possible to predict exactly what would happen or even say if it would be good/bad to regulate border controls harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Now that we gave all that away, we don't need unlimited numbers of cheap workers.

Having expensive OSHA laws, workman's comp, health insurance benefits, paid vacation, mandatory breaks, FLMA, and of course sky high taxes on employees like SS, FICA, Medicare makes the costs of labor too high now. I'll admit we're over-regulated. Even if I bring in some illegal to do the roof work I don't want to hire an American to do, there are cases where illegals have sued homeowners for injuries they suffered while on the job.

I think even injured day workers can sue you under our laws, many might not know they can or they find seeking the taxpayer provided care good enough. For that reason beside the fact that I don't believe in hiring illegals, I think it's better in today's USA to go with licensed and bonded companies where they provide insurance and workman's comp to their employees.

Somewhere there should be a balance between a nanny state and one that allows exploitation and abuse of the people.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 02:37 PM
 
26 posts, read 30,223 times
Reputation: 12
That would be tough for any country to regulate since it would be imply numerous human rights violations so you'd be stuck with that - not that your daughter would get top-notch care when she falls of a motorcycle in Turkey but at least no bill prior to service. The schools and food stamps you could probably do away with quite simply if there was a political will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Illegals can simply show up to an Emergency room and never expect to pay a co-pay, their hospital bill or even the ER visit. I pay it for them.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
4,027 posts, read 7,261,508 times
Reputation: 1332
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I see you're another one spouting the pro-illegal propaganda that illegals are only doing jobs that Americans won't do and no most of them are NOT day laborers. Haven't you read about all the raids? Those were not day laborer jobs. Even day laborers are stealing jobs from American construction and landscape workers.

It is the greedy employers that want them here, not most Americans.
You have no idea what I believe in.

How did the illegals get the jobs in the first place? It wasn't "Oh, you have a job here but we're going to fire you for cheaper labor." It was "No one is working here, I will hire people who want to work here."

If Americans wanted to work there, that would be different. They don't. If they did, prices would skyrocket and Republicans would complain about that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
If you were 100 percent right bout Americans not doing day labor jobs, time are changin. Many people are losing there unemployment now and those day labor jobs are lookin good.
That's the sort of under the table job that Americans could do. If you mean getting paid the same as the others.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 06:15 PM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,861,191 times
Reputation: 4459
Quote:
Originally Posted by medvall View Post
I can tell you I am a foreigner - I choose not to live in the US since I cannot stand living in a country where taxes are so high (and spent on so much $hit) and half the population is just standing around pissing on the best constitution in the world, be it the IRS, TSA and all other agencies trying to impose controls.

This is a good read: http://research.stlouisfed.org/publi...rrettRhine.pdf

All you need to do is give Grover Norquist 5 years and things will be back in shape.

In everything you describe below you do not have an issue with illegal aliens, just your own government.

You get the citizens you deserve in the end - THE REAL AMERICANS, true to the constitution, are leaving the country.
nonsense! real americans aren't leaving the country, but they are getting mad. on a side note, you know why they were called "rednecks"? because they were laborers, working out in the hot sun. they should be proud for contributing to this country.

as citizens, we do have an issue with lawbreaking. we are bound to follow the laws of the united states, and we do. there is no reason on god's green earth that illegal immigrants ,while breaking our law, should be entitled to the same benefits as american citizens. that is insane! you don't reward bad behavior, by people or by government.

i found your link interesting in the section that read as follows:

This model explains the growth in government in part because, over time, new entrants into the voting population are lower income workers. These lower income workers will cast votes for the candidate who will levy higher taxes and increase the amount of redistribution. (end paragraph)


and so our debt load increases:

from politifact


• Debt vs. debt as a percentage of GDP: Some economists will tell you that it’s not the size of the debt per se, but rather the size of the debt relative to the nation’s gross domestic product. This helps minimize the complicating effect of economic cycles and inflation. So how do those numbers stack up? Using OMB statistics, here’s what we came up with, using public debt figures not adjusted for the president’s time in office:

Reagan: Up 14.9 percentage points
George H.W. Bush: Up 7.1 percentage points
Clinton: Down 13.4 percentage points
George W. Bush: Up 5.6 percentage points
Obama: Up 21.9 percentage points (through December 2010 only)

So by this measurement -- potentially a more important one -- Obama is the undisputed debt king of the last five presidents


that is where we are now, rising government debt, almost unstoppable, with a push towards lower income workers- and americans want NO PART OF IT.

Last edited by floridasandy; 07-16-2011 at 06:29 PM..
 
Old 07-16-2011, 06:21 PM
 
14,306 posts, read 13,272,411 times
Reputation: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by medvall View Post
Whatever reference point you want to use.

The DOL sets the minimum salary they have to pay. 20k is not an option for a 60k job. They will need to pay a foreign worker 60k.

Foreign born - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If in fact 55 % of all PhD students are foreign born then how could they possibly take a job from a willing American?

Do you want them to lower the standards for engineering degrees so twice the number or US born people can graduate?

Do you want to completely ruin America's future and kill innovation?

As for some deadbeat redneck screaming about workers comp and disability insurance for some 2 week restoration work - I'll take the illegal Mexican ANY DAY.
I refuse to read anymore of your anti-American, anti-laws, nonsense. Bye.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 06:38 PM
 
14,306 posts, read 13,272,411 times
Reputation: 2136
Quote:
Originally Posted by thePR View Post
You have no idea what I believe in.

How did the illegals get the jobs in the first place? It wasn't "Oh, you have a job here but we're going to fire you for cheaper labor." It was "No one is working here, I will hire people who want to work here."

If Americans wanted to work there, that would be different. They don't. If they did, prices would skyrocket and Republicans would complain about that.



That's the sort of under the table job that Americans could do. If you mean getting paid the same as the others.
Again, I will not read anymore of this tag team group nonsense in here who are anti-American worker, anti-laws and smearing and lying about American workers nor will I respond to it either. Buh, bye.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top