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Old 07-17-2011, 08:51 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,730,499 times
Reputation: 299

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Your standard of living (along with that of all americans) would go down.
And here I thought my taxes would decrease a bit and I would have more money in my pocket due to not having to compensate for illegals costs. Silly me.

You 2+2'ers sure like to speculate based on reports from CATO. CATO plays an interesting game of "what if's" and like to dq alot of other reports for their own purpose. Sorry, I'm a Classic Liberal, not a Progressive Libertarian.

 
Old 07-17-2011, 08:57 PM
 
951 posts, read 622,892 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
So basically your link states that "in Mexico during the summer months" they can't get enough workers to fill appointments. So, your basically only looking at Mexico for your answer, what about the rest of S America or the world for that matter? or is it only Mexicans that do this work according to you and they should be the only ones allowed to obtain an H2A visa?
Haha, you went from accusing me of exaggerating to the point of making stuff up because you didn't read the link I provided and couldn't believe the system was that flawed to now, when provided with evidence of what I claimed, trying to brush off the same thing you just tried to insinuate couldn't even happen. Maybe you should email the USDA and ask them.

Quote:
I don't care about these jobs not being filled by legal workers here as your Colorado link states, I in fact agree to allowing H2A workers to come and work, to grant all here illegally right now an H2A visa and to put them to work at the farms.
Well, the point of that link was that if those American workers quit the process for obtaining workers from H-2A visa applicants takes too long and he is **** out of luck.
 
Old 07-17-2011, 09:01 PM
 
Location: USA
4,980 posts, read 8,272,812 times
Reputation: 2506
If they left, they won't be missed, after they have raped our social services, meant for US, taxpaying Americans. I would like to know HOW they get Social Security for having a baby, when they didn't pay into the system or live here.
 
Old 07-17-2011, 09:02 PM
 
951 posts, read 622,892 times
Reputation: 89
They don't get social security.
 
Old 07-17-2011, 09:25 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,730,499 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Haha, you went from accusing me of exaggerating to the point of making stuff up because you didn't read the link I provided and couldn't believe the system was that flawed to now, when provided with evidence of what I claimed, trying to brush off the same thing you just tried to insinuate couldn't even happen. Maybe you should email the USDA and ask them.

Well, the point of that link was that if those American workers quit the process for obtaining workers from H-2A visa applicants takes too long and he is **** out of luck.
Maybe you should go back and re-read my comments (we've progressed and continued to move forward, while you are now stuck on 1 point). It's not the system that is flawed per se, it is the inability of the Consuls in Mexico (as per your link) to obtain enough workers to come in and sign up (during the summer months - per your link). What do you suppose causes this? Mexico's low unemployment? the closing of some US Consulates in Mexico making it harder and further to travel to to obtain a visa? That maybe not enough Mexicans want to work here anymore? Whats wrong with all the other S American Nations? or is Mexico the only nation allowed to use the H2A?
 
Old 07-17-2011, 09:28 PM
 
951 posts, read 622,892 times
Reputation: 89
No, you asked what would happen.

I told you what would happen.

You accused me of hyperbole and lying.

I provided the quote from the same link I initially provided. I never said it happens all year round. I never mentioned any of the other conditions you are trying to enter into the conversation now either. I just said it is something that happens when farmers get h-2a workers and you accused me of lying.

Now that I provide a link, you try to claim that even though it does happen (doh!), they should be able to just go to other countries without problems. Should they just assume those Mexican applicants are going to be delayed and go to other countries 1st or after it's too late? Should they not hire Mexicans because they can't rely on getting them there on time? Honestly, I don't know the application rates from other countries or other details to comment further. Like I said, ask USDA or whoever wrote the study. They obviously think that it's a problem and the fact you are suggesting that they should just not take Mexican workers or just go to other countries because of delays sounds like an issue with the program's efficiency to me as well.. One that you 1st tried to say didn't even exist.
 
Old 07-17-2011, 09:33 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 799,998 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
PRICES HAVE ALREADY PLUMMETED!

Is that clear? Median prices have ALREADY dropped enormously in many areas. Many of those twenty million people are not buying houses because they can't afford it. When they go home the only way it will affect housing is that we'll probably have more people who aren't living five people in two rooms that don't meet any kind of building codes.
So you don't think prices could go down any further? Suddenly removing ~7% of the population would absolutely devestate the market. it's precarious as it is. A change in demand that big would be a shock that would make the 2008 activity look like a ripple.


Quote:
Since when is basic economics rainbows, ponies and magic?

Smack indeed.

Quote:
Low skilled Americans will fill those jobs. The estimated unemployment rate is about 20% in that group. This will benefit Americans enormously when such people leave the disability and welfare rolls and take jobs instead.
So you're going to replace the people who can't afford anything and "don't pay" taxes with Real Americans? So now you've got the same number of people who "aren't earning enough to buy anything" and now even fewer people in the country paying taxes. Sounds like you just increased the proportional burden on everyone else (since it will now be spread over a smaller number of people who will be producing in aggregate a smaller amount of value that can be taxed). Sounds like a winning plan to me.
 
Old 07-17-2011, 09:36 PM
 
12,870 posts, read 12,872,896 times
Reputation: 4451
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
They don't get social security.
*A Non-Work SSN Will Be Processed For Undocumented Immigrants Who Are
Entitled to the Following Public Benefits*/_^_/* */_(2)
:

Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (“TANF”);

Medicaid;

Food Stamps;

Title XVI (SSI) Payments;

Disability insurance (SSDI) and old age survivors insurance (OASDI)
under Title II Benefits;

Benefits for end stage renal disease patients under Title XVIII;


and the list goes on....

our government, hard at work, trying to find even more ways to waste our money.

and people want to raise the debt ceiling for this crap? this is the kind of stuff that you are not only paying for, but paying interest on top of it.
 
Old 07-17-2011, 09:37 PM
 
951 posts, read 622,892 times
Reputation: 89
Yup and only U.S. citizens can qualify for those benefits.
 
Old 07-17-2011, 09:40 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 799,998 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
A renter is not the same as a buyer, it is the owning of the home that has caused the market to plummet. Foreclosures are at an all time high, those previous owners are moving in the market to renters which in turn is driving the rental market up. This doesn't fix the housing market. Your argument is speculation at best.
It doesn't matter if they are renting or buying. If there are 20 million fewer people in this country, the available stock of empty residential dwellings will spike, big time. Both renters and buyers will have a hugely expanded pool of properties to pick from. Even if all the illegals are renting, their sudden disappearance makes rents crash, which will put pressure on sales as prospective buyers notice that renting is suddenly getting much cheaper. Anyone wanting to sell will have to offer a price to compete with the plummeting rents.

And this will spread through the whole market. Even if illegals only leave low-end housing vacant, those people who were considering a just-slightly-above-low-end property will see the huge glut of low end properties and may decide saving a few hundred dollars a month is nicer than an incremental upgrade in property quality/size. And that will put pressure on slightly-above-low-end property prices. So then people looking at mid-range property will see a similar effect. So suddenly mid-range properties are under tremendous price pressure. and so on.

yes, this is technically speculation but I'm not just pulling this out of my rear. This is pretty basic economics here, plus very rudimentary historical perspective as well.
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