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Old 07-15-2011, 04:38 PM
 
254 posts, read 520,292 times
Reputation: 145

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Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
let's not twist this around.
mexico has citizens that it is responsible for, correct?
they are not united states citizens, correct?
they are not entitled to united states benefits, correct?
they break the law when they come here, correct?
it is an unfair burden to expect the united states to control the mexican citizens, correct?

i suggest we just bill calderon for all the illegal immigrant services that they use if they don't want to control their own borders. mexico cannot pretend that they don't know we have a problem with their citizens sneaking across our border.


mexico, being the hypocrites that they are, actually has a tough immigration policy:

Mexican law calls for six to 12 years of prison and up to $46,000 in fines for anyone who shelters or transports illegal immigrants.

Article 67 of Mexico's immigration law requires that all authorities "whether federal, local or municipal" demand to see visas if approached by a foreigner and to hand over migrants to immigration authorities.

Mexico's Arizona-style law requires local police to check IDs. And Mexican police freely engage in racial profiling and routinely harass Central American migrants, say immigration activists.

"The Mexican government should probably clean up its own house before looking at someone else's," said Melissa Vertíz, spokeswoman for the Fray Matías de Córdova Human Rights Center in Tapachula, Mexico.

In one six-month period from September 2008 through February 2009, at least 9,758 migrants were kidnapped and held for ransom in Mexico — 91 of them with the direct participation of Mexican police, a report by the National Human Rights Commission said. Other migrants are routinely stopped and shaken down for bribes, it said.

A separate survey conducted during one month in 2008 at 10 migrant shelters showed Mexican authorities were behind migrant attacks in 35 of 240 cases, or 15%.

USA Today


why americans have to defend their right to have their laws enforced i don't know.
What am I twisting? Imagine if every time you want to get out of the US you have to ask permission to the US government... Have you ever done it? You do not need to provide anything, you do however have to ask permission to the country you are entering.

This is a basic human right according to the United Nations:

Article 13.

(1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of each state.
(2) Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.


All of the ones below look correct to me...

mexico has citizens that it is responsible for, correct?
they are not united states citizens, correct?
they are not entitled to united states benefits, correct?
they break the law when they come here, correct?
it is an unfair burden to expect the united states to control the mexican citizens, correct?


Also, Mexico changed its immigration laws recently:

Mexico de-criminalizes migration

 
Old 07-15-2011, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridasandy View Post
let's not twist this around.
mexico has citizens that it is responsible for, correct?
they are not united states citizens, correct?
they are not entitled to united states benefits, correct?
they break the law when they come here, correct?
it is an unfair burden to expect the united states to control the mexican citizens, correct?
is it unfair for americans to demand that their laws be respected?

i suggest we just bill calderon for all the illegal immigrant services that they use if they don't want to control their own borders. mexico cannot pretend that they don't know we have a problem with their citizens sneaking across our border.

mexico, being the hypocrites that they are, actually has a tough immigration policy:

Mexican law calls for six to 12 years of prison and up to $46,000 in fines for anyone who shelters or transports illegal immigrants.

Article 67 of Mexico's immigration law requires that all authorities "whether federal, local or municipal" demand to see visas if approached by a foreigner and to hand over migrants to immigration authorities...
First off - You said the discussion was about illegal immigration earlier, so stop taking generic barbs at all Mexican Nationals. My wife and stepchildren comply with all of the laws, and didn't "break" them to get here. If you want to compare the laws relating to immigration and travel between the two countries, I'm your guy.

If you want to go to a Mexican beach, go, you don't even usually need the "FMT" travel document. It costs under $25, and is valid for six months (if your trip to the interior of Mexico is less than a week, you can get the free version). Amount of times that I have been asked to show my FMT in all of my travels there: 0 (I'm White, and stick out like a sore thumb with my blue eyes).

It would be fantastic if the United States could mimic that, I'd be happy to be able to bring my elderly mother-in-law to live with us for six months at a time. Our only comparable level, the limited "Border Crossing Cards" are for Mexican border residents only, and can only go 25 miles into California, New Mexico, or Texas, 75 miles into Arizona, and a maximum of 72 hours. All costs for my MIL while here are on me of course, she isn't going to be able to get on our Social Security.

Just food for thought...
 
Old 07-15-2011, 05:25 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
First off - You said the discussion was about illegal immigration earlier, so stop taking generic barbs at all Mexican Nationals. My wife and stepchildren comply with all of the laws, and didn't "break" them to get here. If you want to compare the laws relating to immigration and travel between the two countries, I'm your guy.

If you want to go to a Mexican beach, go, you don't even usually need the "FMT" travel document. It costs under $25, and is valid for six months (if your trip to the interior of Mexico is less than a week, you can get the free version). Amount of times that I have been asked to show my FMT in all of my travels there: 0 (I'm White, and stick out like a sore thumb with my blue eyes).

It would be fantastic if the United States could mimic that, I'd be happy to be able to bring my elderly mother-in-law to live with us for six months at a time. Our only comparable level, the limited "Border Crossing Cards" are for Mexican border residents only, and can only go 25 miles into California, New Mexico, or Texas, 75 miles into Arizona, and a maximum of 72 hours. All costs for my MIL while here are on me of course, she isn't going to be able to get on our Social Security.

Just food for thought...
Are you exposing some of your resentments towards the USA and our immigration laws here? A piece of the puzzle perhaps?
 
Old 07-15-2011, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Are you exposing some of your resentments towards the USA and our immigration laws here? A piece of the puzzle perhaps?
No, just answering the oft-repeated statement that we should have immigration and non-citizen travel laws like Mexico...

There was even an answer to a SB1070 assertion...

Would you be fine with a foreigner having a travel permit for the United States that costs $25 to travel to our heartland (and none required for the border areas), and is valid for six months at a time (you can turn one in, and get another at a different location or the next day)?...
 
Old 07-15-2011, 06:13 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,146,155 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
No, just answering the oft-repeated statement that we should have immigration and non-citizen travel laws like Mexico...

There was even an answer to a SB1070 assertion...

Would you be fine with a foreigner having a travel permit for the United States that costs $25 to travel to our heartland (and none required for the border areas), and is valid for six months at a time (you can turn one in, and get another at a different location or the next day)?...
It would depend on how it would be monitored and I think it should only be for 3 months. Knowing how our government can't even keep track of visa overstayers, I wouldn't be optimistic about this proposal.
 
Old 07-15-2011, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It would depend on how it would be monitored and I think it should only be for 3 months. Knowing how our government can't even keep track of visa overstayers, I wouldn't be optimistic about this proposal.
The length of the FMT travel permit is up to the issuing "IMN" immigration officer, but typically 180 days with a valid U.S. passport. In the time I was using my birth certificate it was usually authorized for either 30 or 90 days. On the form you have to list the address or location you will be at.

It is also required to turn in the permit before it would expire. During some time on the trip, you visit a bank to pay, and they stamp the permit that you have paid. Failure to comply can exclude you from getting a permit later.

Hand-in-hand is the vehicle permit. It's valid for the same period as your FMT if you register the vehicle, and is about $35. Typically it is advised to get trip insurance, but I don't think it is required. There is a sticker on the windshield with a hologram, it is checked and must be turned in the same way.
 
Old 07-15-2011, 06:34 PM
 
874 posts, read 1,349,168 times
Reputation: 788
How did they figure out the number of illegals? How are there THAT many?... that's crazy if it's true.
 
Old 07-15-2011, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by mco65 View Post
Wow, i never knew that illegal immigrants were the root of all that is wrong in this country!!!
Who knew that without Illegal Immigrants there would be ZERO unemployment! No one would be in Prison! Illegal drugs would cease to exist. No more CRIME, no MORE Gangs, No more traffic Jams, no more $5 gas, no more mid east wars, no more budget deficits, no more credit crises, no more housing bubbles or bursts, no more corportate bail outs, no more racism, no more socialism, no more facisim, no more homeless, no more poverty, no more nothing.. everything will be GRAND! Who knew????
Pure hogwash. Why not comment on what has actually been said, rather than resorting to such nonsensical hyperbole? I’m surprised you didn’t accuse us of blaming illegals for the increase in erectile dysfunction.
 
Old 07-15-2011, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky View Post
I guess here in this thread alone... and I did a search on this illegal immigration forum on each claim by mco65, and found most problems attributed to illegal immigration except for corporate bailouts and facism...







So I guess this post does qualify an honest post even when most estimates show a significant lower number...

PEW - > 11 million
Fair estimation -> 12.7 million
DHS estimation -> 10.8 million
Bear Sterns -> 20 million
“Minutemen” book by Jim Gilchrist and Jerome R. Corsi -> 30 million
CNN?Dobbs -> I do remember him quoting 30 million but cant find it again...
Census -> 38 million living in the US but born outside (legal + illegal)

So my guess is that if 20 million illegals are deported you will actually have deported some US citizens as well by mistake...

Yet, the same “experts” you tout estimated we had 1 million illegals in 1986. Funny, when amnesty was offered, more than 3 million applied. Talk about a gross miscalculation. So, you continue to believe the so-called experts, and I will continue to live in the real world.
 
Old 07-15-2011, 10:23 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
No, just answering the oft-repeated statement that we should have immigration and non-citizen travel laws like Mexico...

There was even an answer to a SB1070 assertion...

Would you be fine with a foreigner having a travel permit for the United States that costs $25 to travel to our heartland (and none required for the border areas), and is valid for six months at a time (you can turn one in, and get another at a different location or the next day)?...
Sure - as long as they are deported and banned from reentry for at least 10 years like Mexico does if the tourist is caught working illegally in this country.

But also it would be critically important to stop anchor baby birth citizenship and welfare handouts of all kinds to these birth tourists.

It's very easy for Mexicans and others to obtain shopping passes and come over here and travel however they please once over.

The biggest problem with that travel card is that our government can't even limit their access to the voting booths, welfare offices, maternity wards, and workplaces when they issue them a laser visa or other more formal document.
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