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Old 07-14-2011, 04:55 PM
 
Location: San Diego
16,779 posts, read 12,495,653 times
Reputation: 5809
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
Okay, thats fair enough. But, even if you don't support it, what would you, as an American citizen, want the immigration department to include in its guidelines IF we were forced to deal with amnesty being enacted as an option?
In a recession we could possibly be looking at another civil war. We are talking about millions of people in the past and even more in the future. I don't think any politician is stupid enough to ride that one all the way through.
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:25 PM
 
403 posts, read 126,227 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
A GED or high school education isn't much of an education in today's world. About eighty percent of all Americans have one. It's not unfair to ask the kid to leave. Otherwise you're setting up a principle in which all you have to do to get American citizenship is send your kid here and enroll him in the local school system. I realize you probably don't have kids so you don't care about overcrowded schools but many Americans feel otherwise.

Young also means he's more likely to father kids of his own. Illegals are factually known to have much higher birth rates than natives, thus increasing school crowding even further.

I really despise how you take the opportunity at every turn to praise a foreign national for merely doing what eighty percent of all Americans do while openly insulting the 50 year old hard working auto worker because he speaks English in an English speaking community.

Remember, this is a hypothetical, the kid in question is 17. A GED is all that should be expected of him at that point in time. He is bright and did reasonably well in school (these people do actually exist, you know) it's not that it would just be unfair to him, it would be a stupid financial decision on our part to have invested so much money in educating a kid and then giving him the boot when the education is so close to beginning to pay off. The fathering a kid bit is ridiculous, just because they may be statistically more likely to doesn't mean they all do. You are being intentionally obtuse and arguing in bad faith putting up ironious arguments just to hamper/obfuscate the discussion. Let's say this person hadn't fathered a kid, as unlikely as that may seem to you, let's say there's only one kid in the entire country that fits this description, would you agree that we should allow this kid to stay because he is likely to go on to college or, at least get a job that wil be decent paying?

My first two years of Highschool I was at a school that was around 66% over capacity, I know what crowded schools are like. They aren't as bad as people make them seem. You can certainly still get a decent education if you're motivated enough.

Being able/ willing to speak multie languages is at the very least a very admirable thing, more importantly its an increasingly valuable skill in a global economy. I would certainly respect that person more than a person who REFUSES to learn a new language in order to stay competitive in the job market and instead tries to secure their job by artificially limiting the job market through cohersion.
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:34 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 5,712,896 times
Reputation: 2116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
I'm aware that we can't deport Americans. I was just stating a fact that some Americans are as bad as those illegals who nurse the system. Will try to address this more later. Off to the docs to see if I've broken my collar bone. OUCH!
Perhaps when you come back you could provide a link to your assertions. Be sure and include the welfare that illegals get for their anchors also.
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Old 07-14-2011, 05:58 PM
 
403 posts, read 126,227 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
I'm aware that we can't deport Americans. I was just stating a fact that some Americans are as bad as those illegals who nurse the system. Will try to address this more later. Off to the docs to see if I've broken my collar bone. OUCH!
Good luck with that collar bone, I've broken both mine as well as a multitude of other bones and collar bones were the worst. :-/
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Old 07-14-2011, 06:03 PM
 
403 posts, read 126,227 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Perhaps when you come back you could provide a link to your assertions. Be sure and include the welfare that illegals get for their anchors also.
You mean that welfare that their legal citizen children are entitled to? That's IF they even have a kid, which I wouldn't put it past you to think that all illegal immigrants have kids that they are getting government aid for.
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Old 07-14-2011, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Tempe, Az
1,421 posts, read 615,882 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
This kid HAS been educated. The question isn't about amending the constitution. This hypothetical was about a kid who was educated in our system, right or wrong, it is dumb at that point to give him the boot. He's more American at that point that "foreign" he came here when he was two and was educated in our schools. He can be help to the economy because he is young and energetic much more capable of learning new skills that provide value to businesses in a modern rapidly-changing economic landscape than some 50yr old ex-auto worker who only knows how to bolt doors onto Chevy Malibu's and refuses to learn another language.
That 50 yo worker has the RIGHT to be here. That ILLEGAL alien kid needs to leave the USA. Especialy in this nasty economy.
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Old 07-14-2011, 06:46 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 5,712,896 times
Reputation: 2116
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikCortez View Post
That 50 yo worker has the RIGHT to be here. That ILLEGAL alien kid needs to leave the USA. Especialy in this nasty economy.
Also, why should a 50 year old American auto worker have to learn another language when he isn't working in the tourist industry or dealing with foreign companies? Even at that the language of commerce is English.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:03 PM
Status: "Gainfully Employed Again." (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Richardson, TX
14,871 posts, read 12,201,234 times
Reputation: 11408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
Okay, thats fair enough. But, even if you don't support it, what would you, as an American citizen, want the immigration department to include in its guidelines IF we were forced to deal with amnesty being enacted as an option?
Deport them all. No amnesty.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:10 PM
 
47,586 posts, read 32,536,754 times
Reputation: 21469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyanna View Post
Okay, I know that many are completely against any sort of amnesty for those who have entered our country illegally. I also strongly held this stance until recently, but have now reconsidered that stance to one which is a bit more willing to allow at least SOME to be given amnesty.

IF amnesty were to be offered, what criteria would you want to see met before it was granted?

For me, I would want these issues considered...

1. Has the applicant been a benefit to their community and neighborhood, instead of a detriment. Example...they take pride in where they live and strive to maintain a nice, healthy living environment which helps to improve instead of drop property values.

2. They have integrated with American society to a degree which enables and encourages communication with others outside of their ethnic background.

3. They have learned the basics of the American English language, maybe not fluently, but enough to communicate.

4. They have supported themselves and their family without the aid of welfare or any other benefits.

5. They have no criminal background, other than the fact that they entered the country illegally.

6. They do not have any infectious disease which could have an impact on Americans.

7. They are mentally and physically healthy enough to work for a living instead of resorting to welfare or benefits.

8. They are willing to pay the usual immigration fees, as well as a fine for entering illegally.

9. They have no gang affiliations, nor any ties to terrorists groups or political groups which seek to overthrow the American government.

10. They are not involved in any way with the trafficking of drugs.

These are just the main issues I would want to be considered if amnesty were to be offered.
I'm not for any kind of amnesty but the people who meet those conditions should be allowed to return home and apply to come here legally - and yes, that means getting in line with all the other would-be immigrants who are also not criminals, willing to pay the fees, have an employer sponsor and so on.

In fact I think ability to assimilate, learn our language, etc should be a criteria to immigrate, and if an illegal has actually learned the language and knows our history, culture, etc, he or she would stand a good chance of being chosen.
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Old 07-14-2011, 07:13 PM
 
47,586 posts, read 32,536,754 times
Reputation: 21469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
You mean that welfare that their legal citizen children are entitled to? That's IF they even have a kid, which I wouldn't put it past you to think that all illegal immigrants have kids that they are getting government aid for.
I think extremely few illegals pay their hospital bills and don't take Medicaid, food stamps and WIC when they have children here.

That's much of the problem, those who come illegally because they could never be sponsored with a work visa, usually accept the kinds of jobs that don't pay so well -- unless they commit felony document fraud and ID theft. Those who are paid in cash under the table don't go out and get themselves into a health insurance plan and they pretty much expect the taxpayer to pick up the tab for their health care.
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