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Old 07-15-2011, 02:22 PM
 
17,286 posts, read 25,030,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
OK, so if the person jaywalks, THEN it's justified to mug him?
Fail AGAIN. By what operation of law is the person being mugged?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime
Right. Moving somewhere to find work is "looking for trouble." OK.

Lol, you act as if they were just moving from Florida to New York or something.

No, they move from their countries, with full knowledge that they are flagrantly ignoring the laws of the US (often spending thousands of dollars to be smuggled in, instead of hiring immigration attorneys to come in the right way). They jump in line ahead countless waiting to get in.

They often come from countries that vehemently enforce immigration laws, and enact stiff penalties against illegal immigrants.

They are not ignorant of the law, theirs is NOT a victimless crime. There are very few places on earth these days that are absolutely destitute, where people are starving or living in such extreme poverty that could ever justify breaking the immigration laws of the United States. "Wanting to work" is not enough.

The Mexican unemployment rate is around 5%. Guatemala unemployment rate is about 3%. The US unemployment rate is about 10%. Enough is enough with the lame justifications.
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Old 07-15-2011, 02:32 PM
 
403 posts, read 281,398 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
They are not ignorant of the law, theirs is NOT a victimless crime. There are very few places on earth these days that are absolutely destitute, where people are starving or living in such extreme poverty that could ever justify breaking the immigration laws of the United States. "Wanting to work" is not enough.
Who are the victims?

Why is wanting to work not enough for you?
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Old 07-15-2011, 02:37 PM
 
17,286 posts, read 25,030,464 times
Reputation: 8527
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
Who are the victims?

Why is wanting to work not enough for you?

Who are the victims? The taxpayers. The environment. American workers competing for the same jobs. The infrastructure and social safety nets.

We have immigration laws, work visas and permits and quotas for a REASON.

It would serve you well to study those reasons and justifications. Maybe some Congressional notes or studies for extra credit.


Again... I cannot just move to Canada for work without going through a PROCESS. I cannot move to Japan and simply start working.

Only lala land "world without borders, world citizens" types fail to grasp the reasons.
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Old 07-15-2011, 02:49 PM
 
254 posts, read 521,778 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Seeing as how both the illegal immigrant and the employers of illegal immigrants are two sides of the same coin, there is no correlation in the garage scenario.

The garage scenario deals with my ability and right (just as the United States has a right) to dictate who lives on premises, and who does not, based on any criteria it wants.

The squatters in my garage most likely would work in a lettuce farm, where some neo-plantation slaver pays them $2/hour whilst scareing the rest of America into thinking salad will cost $30 a plate if he was not allowed to hire his neo-slaves.

Ya know, just like how we stopped being able to afford cotton after slavery ended.
You are making an analogy of your garage as a private property to the US as a private property... so is the neo-plantation slaver also living in your garage? Otherwise what is the point of this garage example?
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Old 07-15-2011, 02:53 PM
 
Location: DFW
2,262 posts, read 2,699,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
This is great, just think of all of the formerly middle class Americans wwho will be able to fill those jobs when their unemployment is cut oof because there is work available. Third World we are here
This is Bush's fault, right?
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:08 PM
 
17,286 posts, read 25,030,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky View Post
You are making an analogy of your garage as a private property to the US as a private property... so is the neo-plantation slaver also living in your garage? Otherwise what is the point of this garage example?

Your'e going to have to follow along.

The garage example was in response to the poster who classified and likened deporation after being caught as an undocumented immigrant as "unjust."

The garage example likened illegal immigration with someone knowingly moving in and squatting on private property. Having said squatters kicked out or arrested does not elicit sympathy for most normal people.
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:42 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 792,080 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Fail AGAIN. By what operation of law is the person being mugged?
Ah, OK. So if something is THE LAW, then it is automatically right and just?

Quote:
Lol, you act as if they were just moving from Florida to New York or something.

No, they move from their countries, with full knowledge that they are flagrantly ignoring the laws of the US (often spending thousands of dollars to be smuggled in, instead of hiring immigration attorneys to come in the right way). They jump in line ahead countless waiting to get in.

They often come from countries that vehemently enforce immigration laws, and enact stiff penalties against illegal immigrants.

They are not ignorant of the law, theirs is NOT a victimless crime. There are very few places on earth these days that are absolutely destitute, where people are starving or living in such extreme poverty that could ever justify breaking the immigration laws of the United States. "Wanting to work" is not enough.

The Mexican unemployment rate is around 5%. Guatemala unemployment rate is about 3%. The US unemployment rate is about 10%. Enough is enough with the lame justifications.
Ah, so if they're coming from a place where rights are violated, then it's OK for us to violate their rights?

The fact that they're moving from mexico instead of florida doesn't magically make them "looking for trouble." Apparently what makes it "looking for trouble" in your book is the fact that they just want a fair shot to compete for jobs.

Why, in your book, is someone moving from Florida to Texas NOT "looking for trouble"? Isn't that person potentially taking a job from a real Texan?
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:44 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 792,080 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
We have immigration laws, work visas and permits and quotas for a REASON.
Yes, that reason is that some people already got theirs and they want to keep other people from fairly competing with them for it. They want a handout. They want US taxpayers to pay for it.

That's what this is about. Lazy, entitled americans want me, the taxpayer, to fund their protectionist scheme.
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:45 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 792,080 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Your'e going to have to follow along.

The garage example was in response to the poster who classified and likened deporation after being caught as an undocumented immigrant as "unjust."

The garage example likened illegal immigration with someone knowingly moving in and squatting on private property. Having said squatters kicked out or arrested does not elicit sympathy for most normal people.
I agree, I don't want squatters on my property.

But (and I already asked this once without a response) do you think my opinion of who should be allowed to visit your garage is more important than your opinion?
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Old 07-15-2011, 04:12 PM
 
17,286 posts, read 25,030,464 times
Reputation: 8527
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Ah, OK. So if something is THE LAW, then it is automatically right and just?
Who said that?

I happen to think (as do most people) that there is nothing unjust about deporting illegals. On the contrary, non-enforcement of immigration laws is UNJUST.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime
Ah, so if they're coming from a place where rights are violated, then it's OK for us to violate their rights?
Pray tell, what rights of theirs are being violated? The right to....um... violate laws of another nation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime
The fact that they're moving from mexico instead of florida doesn't magically make them "looking for trouble." Apparently what makes it "looking for trouble" in your book is the fact that they just want a fair shot to compete for jobs.
They don't GET a 'fair shot' to compete for jobs because they aren't supposed to be in the labor pool AT ALL. THAT is reserved for AMERICANS. Why can't you comprehend that?

Again. Explain the logic: Mexico: 5% unemployment. Guatemala: 3% unemployment. United States: 10%.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime
Why, in your book, is someone moving from Florida to Texas NOT "looking for trouble"? Isn't that person potentially taking a job from a real Texan?
Nope. Americans have the right and privilege to move about the country as they please. See for reference: US Constitution and case law construing same.

(actually, to aide in your endevour on this board, you MIGHt want to spend a bit more time studying both anyway!)
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