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Old 07-14-2011, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
A large part of the argument for stricter enforcement of illegal immigration laws is the fact that illegal immigrants are said to be a drain on our system, primarily due to the fact that their low incomes make them net recipients of welfare.

Let's assume that this argument is correct. It seems to me like this is a pretty easy problem to solve. Right now illegal immigrants are primarily getting into the United States by crossing our southern border. In doing so, they incur certain costs. Most notably, they very frequently are paying "coyotes" several thousand dollars a pop to smuggle them in. The industry is estimated to be worth about $5B a year.

So as it stands, many illegal immigrants are paying a rather hefty fee to cross the border. Indeed, the costs are actually bigger than they might appear. Not only are they paying the coyotes, but they are incurring others costs - the risk of injury or death in the desert, the risk of deportation (which, in turn, implies the risk of having to once again pay a coyote for smuggling) etc. These risks accumulate the longer an illegal immigrant has been here - the more settle he or she becomes into his or her life, the more daunting the threat of deportation becomes.

So realistically we can ascertain that many illegal migrants are paying several thousand dollars each to transport themselves to the United States. From there, they have limited access to the resources and legal protections that citizens do, and have to spend at least some time and effort avoiding immigration enforcement.

It strikes me, then, that we could simply charge immigrants wishing to become citizens a certain number at the border. Call it $5,000, though obviously this is a somewhat arbitrary guess. In exchange, we grant them a relatively rapid path to citizenship, and the ability to stay here in the meantime. Now, considering how important this status is to many immigrants, we can add all sorts of strings to this. So we'd have a system that looks something like this:

If immigrants are:

1. Willing to pay $5,000
2. Lacking a history of serious criminal activity
3. Willing to forgo use of safety net programs until their citizenship is official (and perhaps even a couple years after)

Then we would allow them a path to citizenship. This, of course, addresses what appears to be the primary concern of most posters here who want stricter enforcement.
Your proposal assumes they would actually comply with the “new” rules. They won’t. By your own admission, they pay coyotes thousands of dollars. Those same thousands could NOW be used to go through the LEGAL process, if they so desired.

Another issue is we already have more than enough low-skilled and uneducated citizens. We don’t need more. Those with skills are already granted visas.

A huge incentive for illegal immigration is Birthright Citizenship. As long as they can slither across the border and give birth to a U.S. citizen, and avail themselves of ALL of our benefits and services, they will NEVER consider paying. The old adage -- “Why buy the cow when you can get milk free” comes to mind.

Furthermore, if illegal aliens have $5,000 per family member to spend, they can’t be in dire straits, and can easily survive in their countries of origin. Plus, such a nominal fee is a joke to begin with. Sorry, no deal.

 
Old 07-14-2011, 04:43 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Your proposal assumes they would actually comply with the “new” rules. They won’t. By your own admission, they pay coyotes thousands of dollars. Those same thousands could NOW be used to go through the LEGAL process, if they so desired.
But this would be easier, thus making them more willing to go through the process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Another issue is we already have more than enough low-skilled and uneducated citizens. We don’t need more. Those with skills are already granted visas.
Last sentence is just clearly false. This was covered in a jobs debate at the Atlantic recently.

Roll Out the Welcome Mat for Entrepreneurs - Carl Schramm - Business - The Atlantic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
A huge incentive for illegal immigration is Birthright Citizenship. As long as they can slither across the border and give birth to a U.S. citizen, and avail themselves of ALL of our benefits and services, they will NEVER consider paying. The old adage -- “Why buy the cow when you can get milk free” comes to mind.
Well this is simply overbroad.

You guys have a sort of conflicting opinion about this. You keep noting that illegals are out in public asking for citizenship, then you come back here and say "they have no incentives to seek citizenship, they get it all for free!" So uh, why are they asking for amnesty if they are getting the milk for free, exactly?
 
Old 07-14-2011, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
But this would be easier, thus making them more willing to go through the process.



Last sentence is just clearly false. This was covered in a jobs debate at the Atlantic recently.

Roll Out the Welcome Mat for Entrepreneurs - Carl Schramm - Business - The Atlantic



Well this is simply overbroad.

You guys have a sort of conflicting opinion about this. You keep noting that illegals are out in public asking for citizenship, then you come back here and say "they have no incentives to seek citizenship, they get it all for free!" So uh, why are they asking for amnesty if they are getting the milk for free, exactly?
They consider our laws a joke. Again, as long as they can give birth and live comfortably off taxpayers, why bother paying?

I’m sorry, but there is more than enough data to substantiate my claim that we have millions of low-skilled/uneducated, many whom are currently unemployed. Have you not heard the latest unemployment rates among low-skilled black men? Please.

Illegals only want to remain in this country without the fear of deportation. They don’t give a damn about becoming U.S. citizens. They simply want the legal right to remain here and get what they can.
 
Old 07-14-2011, 05:07 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Lemme see, they crossed the border illegally, breaking American law, THAT makes them criminals..
Um, what? Like I said, we're talking about immigrants who are arriving here.
 
Old 07-14-2011, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,884,971 times
Reputation: 6517
yes we should allow them to buy their way in.
Step1 return to nation of origin
step 2 apply for a VISA
step3 wait their turn
step4 after being granted a VISA enter legally.
The 5000.00 is the fine they should pay for their original trespass.
 
Old 07-14-2011, 07:25 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 16,853,526 times
Reputation: 7619
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Um, what? Like I said, we're talking about immigrants who are arriving here.
Criminals.....Law breakers...Illegal aliens....Rapists...Murderers....Disease carriers...

As I posted earlier, I'm all for the illegal alien buy in....

5 or 10 million US dollars to fill out and process the individuals paperwork and if approved the individual pays another 5 or 10 million US dollars....

They want to circumvent United States policy? OK, but they have to pay for that privilege
 
Old 07-14-2011, 07:48 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
I actually think fewer immigrants should be allowed to bribe their way in, and immigration should be limited to those with job skills that are very needed - and with the high unemployment rates, not all that many job skills are very needed, but also those who truly desire to be part of the American people, and have a willingness and ability to learn and speak the language, adapt and fit in.

Immigration shouldn't just be who can get their hands on enough money to buy their way in.

And $5000 doesn't even cover the cost of the first birth here, or provide enough tax dollars to educate even one child for just one year.
 
Old 07-14-2011, 08:24 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I actually think fewer immigrants should be allowed to bribe their way in, and immigration should be limited to those with job skills that are very needed - and with the high unemployment rates, not all that many job skills are very needed, but also those who truly desire to be part of the American people, and have a willingness and ability to learn and speak the language, adapt and fit in.

Immigration shouldn't just be who can get their hands on enough money to buy their way in.

And $5000 doesn't even cover the cost of the first birth here, or provide enough tax dollars to educate even one child for just one year.
Well they'd still pay taxes, the fee would be additional.

Essentially my point is that since there are people willing to pay to get here illegally, it makes sense to attempt to tap that market and turn the profit of the coyotes into the profit of the United States government.
 
Old 07-14-2011, 08:25 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by plwhit View Post
Criminals.....Law breakers...Illegal aliens....Rapists...Murderers....Disease carriers...
Right, my post isn't about "criminals," it's about ways for immigrants to LEGALLY enter the country. Not that complicated.
 
Old 07-14-2011, 08:30 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,583,040 times
Reputation: 1270
Legal immigrants already spend a crapload of money to get in legally.
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