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Old 07-16-2011, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,861,656 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
A CIS study that is wrong? Imagine that. Let's just go to the source for the real facts.


Cost of Illegal Immigrants | FactCheck.org


OR:



http://www.cato.org/pubs/irb/irb_june2010.pdf
You do realize a "study” that lacks pertinent data, cannot be considered valid, don’t you? For years, no distinction was made between citizen criminals/convicts and illegal aliens. In fact, the government only recently began maintaining separate records. We did not have programs such as 287(g) or Secure Communities to identify illegal alien offenders. Nor did agencies share info relative to illegal immigration and criminal behavior. In addition, many jurisdictions have had longstanding “sanctuary” practices which impede measures to identify illegal alien criminals. Hence, these studies, at best, can only be considered a snapshot of illegal alien criminality in this country.

Quote:
Corrections officials are sure that at least 7 percent of Nevada's prison inmates were born in a foreign country, but the number of illegal immigrants could be more than double that.

Federal immigration officials have said that there probably are far more than the state has identified because they account for between 22 percent and 32 percent of inmates at other prisons in the southwestern United States, said state Supreme Court Justice James Hardesty, who serves on the state Pardons Board.

Meanwhile, outside prison, about 80 percent of the Spanish-speaking cases handled by parole and probation officers in Southern Nevada involve illegal immigrants.
Toll on state prison, parole and probation systems adds up - News - ReviewJournal.com

Quote:
A federal database that uses the fingerprints of convicted criminals to establish immigration status and determine criminal history went into effect this week in Washoe County, the first Nevada location to begin using the resource.

It is part of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement that helps local authorities identify high-risk illegal immigrants who have been convicted of crimes such as homicide, rape, kidnapping or drug trafficking, among other violent offenses. It has been used in other parts of the country since 2008.
Fingerprint database to ID criminal illegal immigrants - News - ReviewJournal.com

Quote:
The Justice Department is completing rules to allow the collection of DNA from most people arrested or detained by federal authorities, a vast expansion of DNA gathering that will include hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants, by far the largest group affected.

The new forensic DNA sampling was authorized by Congress in a little-noticed amendment to a January 2006 renewal of the Violence Against Women Act, which provides protections and assistance for victims of sexual crimes. The amendment permits DNA collecting from anyone under criminal arrest by federal authorities, and also from illegal immigrants detained by federal agents.

Over the last year, the Justice Department has been conducting an internal review and consulting with other agencies to prepare regulations to carry out the law.
U.S. Set to Begin a Vast Expansion of DNA Sampling - New York Times


The following report is not from CIS, or other sources you deem “wrong.” Yes, let’s go to the source. But, bear in mind, even this data is incomplete, for the reasons previously explained.


Quote:
The number of criminal aliens in federal prisons in fiscal year 2010 was about 55,000, and the number of SCAAP criminal alien incarcerations in state prison systems and local jails was about 296,000 in fiscal year 2009 (the most recent data available), and the majority were from Mexico. The number of criminal aliens in federal prisons increased about 7 percent from about 51,000 in fiscal year 2005 while the number of SCAAP criminal alien incarcerations in state prison systems and local jails increased about 35 percent from about 220,000 in fiscal year 2003. The time period covered by these data vary because they reflect updates since GAO last reported on these issues in 2005. Specifically, in 2005, GAO reported that the percentage of criminal aliens in federal prisons was about 27 percent of the total inmate population from 2001 through 2004. Based on our random sample, GAO estimates that the criminal aliens had an average of 7 arrests, 65 percent were arrested at least once for an immigration offense, and about 50 percent were arrested at least once for a drug offense. Immigration, drugs, and traffic violations accounted for about 50 percent of arrest offenses. About 90 percent of the criminal aliens sentenced in federal court in fiscal year 2009 (the most recently available data) were convicted of immigration and drug-related offenses. About 40 percent of individuals convicted as a result of DOJ terrorism-related investigations were aliens. SCAAP criminal aliens incarcerated in selected state prison systems in Arizona, California, Florida, New York, and Texas were convicted of various offenses in fiscal year 2008 (the most recently available data at the time of GAO's analysis). The highest percentage of convictions for criminal aliens incarcerated in four of these states was for drug-related offenses. Homicide resulted in the most primary offense convictions for SCAAP criminal aliens in the fifth state--New York--in fiscal year 2008. GAO estimates that costs to incarcerate criminal aliens in federal prisons and SCAAP reimbursements to states and localities ranged from about $1.5 billion to $1.6 billion annually from fiscal years 2005 through 2009; DOJ plans to update its SCAAP methodology for reimbursing states and localities in 2011 to help ensure that it is current and relevant.
U.S. GAO - Criminal Alien Statistics: Information on Incarcerations, Arrests, and Costs

 
Old 07-16-2011, 09:23 AM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,014,296 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
That's not a problem with illegals. That's a problem with criminals. The vast majority of illegals are only ignoring a very, very small subset of laws. And that subset happens to be made up of laws that are unjust.

So ignoring a "very small subset of laws" doesn't make them criminal?

Breaking the law is criminal. You admit that they break the law. Yet you say that they are not criminal.

The real crime here is the education you received that caused this thinking by you.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 09:48 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,192,202 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
So ignoring a "very small subset of laws" doesn't make them criminal?

Breaking the law is criminal. You admit that they break the law. Yet you say that they are not criminal.

The real crime here is the education you received that caused this thinking by you.
And I wouldn't call I.D. and SS# theft and income tax evasion a "very small subset of laws" either.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,076 posts, read 4,979,999 times
Reputation: 2482
I wonder if pro illegals actually understand what the word illegal means.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,861,656 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Well, since the crimes they commit are to facilitate their entry into American and then the work place, logic would lead you to the conclusion that if they didn't have to commit these crimes in the first place they wouldn't occur.

Again, do you have any proof that these people would continue to obtain fake SS numbers, etc. if they were able to enter and work legally?

How many legal immigrants are committing these same crimes btw?
Clearly, you lack an understanding of human behavior. Illegal aliens are not robots that can be programmed to instantly modify behavior. Many, if not most, have grown accustomed to ignoring laws. In addition, the majority (Mexican) come from a culture of government corruption and malfeasance, where bribery is considered a standard operating procedure. Consequently, their distrust of laws, and their disrespect for authority, is ingrained, and not easily reversed. Do you actually believe the passage of a law will magically transform them from criminals to law-abiding citizens? Sorry, it won’t.

The mere fact that they are willing to ignore the laws of a sovereign nation by entering without permission, or deliberately violating the terms of their Visa agreements, illustrates they have a total lack of regard for laws. Those who have profited from identity theft will continue to do so. As will the millions who enjoy the benefits of working without paying taxes. Old habits are extremely hard to break, especially when the habitual behavior is rewarded.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 10:12 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,958,315 times
Reputation: 22179
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
This from the person who has explicitly said she's in favor of maintaining a white culture in america.
No one can maintain a white culture in America because our culture has never been that. Our culture invented jazz and gospel music for example. But our culture never invented mariachi music, that is from another culture.

Our culture is derived from our own nation's history and society. If you got rid of every illegal of all kinds, we'd still be the most diverse nation on earth but our culture is also an English speaking one, mostly influenced by other English speaking cultures - like it or not.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 10:32 AM
 
951 posts, read 618,848 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You do realize a "study” that lacks pertinent data, cannot be considered valid, don’t you? For years, no distinction was made between citizen criminals/convicts and illegal aliens. In fact, the government only recently began maintaining separate records. We did not have programs such as 287(g) or Secure Communities to identify illegal alien offenders. Nor did agencies share info relative to illegal immigration and criminal behavior. In addition, many jurisdictions have had longstanding “sanctuary” practices which impede measures to identify illegal alien criminals. Hence, these studies, at best, can only be considered a snapshot of illegal alien criminality in this country.


Toll on state prison, parole and probation systems adds up - News - ReviewJournal.com


Fingerprint database to ID criminal illegal immigrants - News - ReviewJournal.com


U.S. Set to Begin a Vast Expansion of DNA Sampling - New York Times


The following report is not from CIS, or other sources you deem “wrong.” Yes, let’s go to the source. But, bear in mind, even this data is incomplete, for the reasons previously explained.



U.S. GAO - Criminal Alien Statistics: Information on Incarcerations, Arrests, and Costs
coolstorybro - along with some pointless bolding. None of those solidify an actual number of illegals in our prison system. In fact, the last quote says 27% are foreign born and doesn't specify further on their status. Now, do you actually have a source on the number of ILLEGALS in prison? I mean, the first thing you bolded regarding what federal employees stated is in direct contradiction with your last quote. If there are up to 32% illegal immigrants in our prisons how come the Bureau of Prisons has the total number of foreign born, both legal and illegal at 27%? hmmmmmmm
 
Old 07-16-2011, 10:36 AM
 
951 posts, read 618,848 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Clearly, you lack an understanding of human behavior. Illegal aliens are not robots that can be programmed to instantly modify behavior. Many, if not most, have grown accustomed to ignoring laws. In addition, the majority (Mexican) come from a culture of government corruption and malfeasance, where bribery is considered a standard operating procedure. Consequently, their distrust of laws, and their disrespect for authority, is ingrained, and not easily reversed. Do you actually believe the passage of a law will magically transform them from criminals to law-abiding citizens? Sorry, it won’t.

The mere fact that they are willing to ignore the laws of a sovereign nation by entering without permission, or deliberately violating the terms of their Visa agreements, illustrates they have a total lack of regard for laws. Those who have profited from identity theft will continue to do so. As will the millions who enjoy the benefits of working without paying taxes. Old habits are extremely hard to break, especially when the habitual behavior is rewarded.
Conjecture is fun. Do you have proof or evidence that they will go on to commit the crimes they committed to get work?

How many legal immigrants are committing id fraud, etc right now?
 
Old 07-16-2011, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,861,656 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
coolstorybro - along with some pointless bolding. None of those solidify an actual number of illegals in our prison system. In fact, the last quote says 27% are foreign born and doesn't specify further on their status. Now, do you actually have a source on the number of ILLEGALS in prison? I mean, the first thing you bolded regarding what federal employees stated is in direct contradiction with your last quote. If there are up to 32% illegal immigrants in our prisons how come the Bureau of Prisons has the total number of foreign born, both legal and illegal at 27%? hmmmmmmm
I already explained why they do not have an accurate accounting. How could they, when they only recently starting maintaining records? However, these are the “estimates” obtained through recent identification of illegal aliens in our penal system. Again, it is only a snapshot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Conjecture is fun. Do you have proof or evidence that they will go on to commit the crimes they committed to get work?

How many legal immigrants are committing id fraud, etc right now?
How could I possibly have proof of something that has yet to occur? They would first have to be legalized to make that determination, would they not?

You cannot predict the likelihood of criminal behavior for legalized illegal aliens on the basis of the behavior of legal immigrants. Legal immigrants have already proven to be a higher caliber than illegal aliens. After all, legal immigrants chose to obey our laws, while illegals chose to ignore them.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 11:13 AM
 
951 posts, read 618,848 times
Reputation: 89
lol. ok.

Approx. 1/2 are visa overstays and already tried the legal route. I wonder if there are any stats on the numbers that actually go back when their visa expires without waiting to get deported.
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