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Old 07-16-2011, 10:14 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I already explained why they do not have an accurate accounting. How could they, when they only recently starting maintaining records? However, these are the “estimates” obtained through recent identification of illegal aliens in our penal system. Again, it is only a snapshot.



How could I possibly have proof of something that has yet to occur? They would first have to be legalized to make that determination, would they not?

You cannot predict the likelihood of criminal behavior for legalized illegal aliens on the basis of the behavior of legal immigrants. Legal immigrants have already proven to be a higher caliber than illegal aliens. After all, legal immigrants chose to obey our laws, while illegals chose to ignore them.
Even if the illegals who are legalized decide to follow the straight and narrow path from that point forward, why would those who employ only illegals do so?

After all, the open borders types continually insist we need unlimited numbers of ultra cheap hard working desperate type workers that are here illegally.

It's their dirt wages that keep food prices way way down (sure huh) and housing prices at rock bottom so we need them.

So in that case there is no reason to legalize them. That would mean the employers would just have to start all over bringing many more truckloads of replacement illegals.

 
Old 07-16-2011, 10:15 AM
 
16,747 posts, read 9,476,191 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Conjecture is fun. Do you have proof or evidence that they will go on to commit the crimes they committed to get work?

How many legal immigrants are committing id fraud, etc right now?
You keep asking for proof of all of this "conjecture", as you put it, that they will simply continue to break laws.

You are already in possession of the "proof" that they've established they are criminals (they're here illegally) but you insist on proof they will re-offend.

Suppose you were given proof of that as a trend, such as the criminal behaviour of the gangs in inner cities of California, that have displayed their regard for the laws of the U.S., AFTER becoming citizens, by joining these gangs and committing any number of crimes. Suppose you were given proof of their re-offend tendancies by the Border Patrol sometimes rounding up a group of illegals that have just crossed into the U.S. only to find any number of them are 2nd or 3rd time deportees. In some instances they've been bussed back across the border only to pop up again in a round-up the very next day.

Suppose you were provided with these as examples in the form of statistics or clickable links, what would your next demand for proof of their tendancy to re-offend be; as I'm darned sure you'd have one.

Before any of us satisfy your demand by going to all of that work however; where is your proof that calling them "illegals" or "criminals" satifies the Geneva Convention of 'cruel and in-humane' or "sub-human" treatment as you so eloquently put it?
 
Old 07-16-2011, 10:16 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
lol. ok.

Approx. 1/2 are visa overstays and already tried the legal route. I wonder if there are any stats on the numbers that actually go back when their visa expires without waiting to get deported.
More go back when they think our government really meant the terms of their visas.

As long as nothing is done then they tend to stay and do whatever they please.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 10:19 AM
 
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Okay - to all the open borders types who insist we need illegals: Should they not be left illegal if we need illegals? What would be the point in legalizing them? That would only defeat the purpose in bringing this cheap labor in the first place.

No longer would they be the happy dirt-wage peons we supposedly need here.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Yet like 1/2 are visa overstays and already tried the legal route. I wonder if there are any stats on the numbers that actually go back when their visa expires without waiting to get deported.
No, half are not visa overstays. The majority (60%) slithered across our borders. However, the percentage of illegals that entered our country on visas, with the sole intent of overstaying, are indeed of the same low caliber as border jumpers.

By legal immigrants, I am referring to those who went through legal channels, jumped through numerous bureaucratic hoops, played by all rules, and currently have a legal presence. I am not referring to those who entered on a tourist visa, and later overstayed. After all, they are not immigrants, they are visitors who overstayed their welcome, and resort to the same criminal behavior to remain here as border jumpers.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 11:51 AM
 
951 posts, read 616,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruSan View Post
Before any of us satisfy your demand by going to all of that work however; where is your proof that calling them "illegals" or "criminals" satifies the Geneva Convention of 'cruel and in-humane' or "sub-human" treatment as you so eloquently put it?
First let's start by finding a quote where I mentioned any of this.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 11:54 AM
 
951 posts, read 616,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
No, half are not visa overstays. The majority (60%) slithered across our borders. However, the percentage of illegals that entered our country on visas, with the sole intent of overstaying, are indeed of the same low caliber as border jumpers.

By legal immigrants, I am referring to those who went through legal channels, jumped through numerous bureaucratic hoops, played by all rules, and currently have a legal presence. I am not referring to those who entered on a tourist visa, and later overstayed. After all, they are not immigrants, they are visitors who overstayed their welcome, and resort to the same criminal behavior to remain here as border jumpers.

yeah 40% is almost half which is what I meant when I said "like". I couldn't remember the exact figure. Sorry.

Such good use of descriptive words to continue to dehumanize.

Anyway, my original question was for proof that illegals were over represented in prisons. Thanks for admitting you can't prove this after all the quoting and bolding of costs, etc. that had nothing to do with the original question I asked, as usual.


BTW: I researched that study from CIS with the 17% figure and the footnote leads to guess what.....an unpublished study lol. Imagine that.

Last edited by huddledmasses; 07-16-2011 at 12:07 PM..
 
Old 07-16-2011, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
yeah 40% is almost half which is what I meant when I said "like". I couldn't remember the exact figure. Sorry.

Such good use of descriptive words to continue to dehumanize.

Anyway, my original question was for proof that illegals were over represented in prisons. Thanks for admitting you can't prove this after all the quoting and bolding of costs, etc. that had nothing to do with the original question I asked, as usual.


BTW: I researched that study from CIS with the 17% figure and the footnote leads to guess what.....an unpublished study lol. Imagine that.
If 27% of the federal prison population is not disproportionate, then please tell me what is. Or, do illegal aliens represent 27% of the total population in this country?

Since I did not quote a report from CIS, rather one from GAO, your response is, as usual, irrelevant.


Quote:
Specifically, in 2005, GAO reported that the percentage of criminal aliens in federal prisons was about 27 percent of the total inmate population from 2001 through 2004.
 
Old 07-16-2011, 01:04 PM
 
828 posts, read 1,403,286 times
Reputation: 1025
Default Illegals Shouldn't Be Deported for Commiting Crimes

I agree!! They should be taken to a secluded area and shot in the head and buried in a deep hole!! Consider them an invasion and deal with them as such!!
 
Old 07-16-2011, 01:12 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,793 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If 27% of the federal prison population is not disproportionate, then please tell me what is. Or, do illegal aliens represent 27% of the total population in this country?

Since I did not quote a report from CIS, rather one from GAO, your response is, as usual, irrelevant.

That 27% figure is all foreign born people incarcerated, not illegal immigrants. Now, I'm still waiting for the methodology on how we determine which aren't legal after the illegal immigrants that are under ICE jurisdiction are accounted for.

That same link also estimates the illegal immigrant population at 10.8 million. You obviously don't believe that but hey let's twist info from the same study to make 27% foreign born equal the illegal immigrants somehow.

Quote:
including about 10.8 million aliens without lawful immigration status.
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