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Old 07-20-2011, 08:57 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,176,297 times
Reputation: 2130

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
They were allowed to participate in the American dream, and have their descendants remain here among us, isn't that worth more than anything else? I'll ask again, does "working hard" excuse their behavior of not following the rules for citizenship laid out at the time? Illegal is illegal!
No, working hard does not excuse ANYONE for not following the rules for citizenship in this country, past or present. Does that answer your question or are you going to continue to beat the past to death as justification for illegal entry into our country today?
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Fortunately the IRS also corroborates the SSA's take that they are paying taxes.
I must have missed where they stated that 75% of the employers of illegals are paying all required taxes. Would you mind highlighting that section?
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:02 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,931,891 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Well, are you going to produce the figures for the property taxes, sales taxes and other state taxes they paid in vs. those costs as well? Nah, just show the costs that'll be scarier.
can you ? can anyone? No guesses not maybe numbers but actual numbers?
And if they can produce said numbers why havent they enforced the laws?
Red Tape - Hidden cost of illegal immigration: ID theft
A victimless crime just like jaywalking right?
This source msnbc more liberal would be hard to find.
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDros View Post
lol, this is great. We're dismissing CBO reports because they're inherently untrustworthy because they come from the Federal government, but xxxxxxxpimptaddyone's Youtube channel is an authoritative source?

This is only one state.


Quote:
AUSTIN — The state of Texas and local hospital districts spent an estimated $677 million to provide health care to illegal immigrants in a year, a new study says.

The survey, issued by the Texas Health and Human Services Commission, said that most of the money — $597 million — was spent by local hospital districts for the immigrants' care during the state's fiscal year that ended on Aug. 31, 2006.
Study: Illegal immigrants cost Texas, hospitals $677 million | Front page | Chron.com - Houston Chronicle
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:15 PM
 
Location: East Coast US
37 posts, read 23,023 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
can you ? can anyone? No guesses not maybe numbers but actual numbers?
And if they can produce said numbers why havent they enforced the laws?
Red Tape - Hidden cost of illegal immigration: ID theft
A victimless crime just like jaywalking right?
This source msnbc more liberal would be hard to find.
What the hell man, you ask for an impossible level of detail when critiquing other sources, but in the next line link to an article that says this:

Quote:
Thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Americans are right now sharing their identities with immigrants and don't know it.
So, the scope problem is so vague that it could be 2,000 people nationwide. Or it could be "hundreds of thousands." So you want specifics from your opponents yet support your own claims with reference to a problem that can be narrowed down to a guesstimate ranging from inconsequential to who-knows how large? Yeah, that's kind of hypocritical, bud.

Further, when mismatched taxes are paid (which, btw, refutes part of the argument going on in parallel here that undocumented workers don't pay taxes):
Quote:
They don't end up on anyone's annual Social Security statement, they end up in something called the Earnings Suspense File. Since 1984, when the Social Security card employment verification requirement kicked in, nearly $500 billion in wages has ended up in that file.
Free monies for the government!
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:27 PM
 
Location: East Coast US
37 posts, read 23,023 times
Reputation: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
This is only one state.
What? That has nothing to do with source quality, which is what I was commenting on. You're given a link to a Congressional Budget Office report and dismiss it, yet a link to some random dude's Youtube account is an acceptable source to back your argument.

It's quite obvious that any source you disagree with, no matter how academic and vetted, is going to be discarded and any source that even hints at the conclusion you want to arrive at will be treated as gospel, no matter how fringe or unsupported those sources are.


I'll take a page from you guys and summarily dismiss this article due to misrepresentation of the numbers.

From the article...

Quote:
State Rep. Garnet Coleman, D-Houston, said the study only tells half of the story.
He noted that the immigrants contribute to government coffers by paying sales and property taxes.
Quote:
But county hospital district officials disputed the report's numbers, noting that they were calculated on the basis of charges instead of costs. They said charges are inflated, typically double the actual costs of services to taxpayers.
"The cost of health care to undocumented immigrants is something we worry about, something we monitor, but we don't want to overstate it," said David Lopez, president and CEO of the Harris County Hospital District. "It's not an overwhelming percentage of our budget."
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDros View Post
What? That has nothing to do with source quality, which is what I was commenting on. You're given a link to a Congressional Budget Office report and dismiss it, yet a link to some random dude's Youtube account is an acceptable source to back your argument.

It's quite obvious that any source you disagree with, no matter how academic and vetted, is going to be discarded and any source that even hints at the conclusion you want to arrive at will be treated as gospel, no matter how fringe or unsupported those sources are.




I'll take a page from you guys and summarily dismiss this article due to misrepresentation of the numbers.

From the article...
Every state is suffering due to illegal immigration. Here are a few more.

Quote:
In Texas, where the state comptroller estimates illegal immigrants cost hospitals $1.3 billion in 2006, the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston is considering denying cancer care to such immigrants.
Quote:
One thing is clear: Undocumented immigrants are driving up the number of people without health insurance. The Pew Hispanic Center estimates that 59% of the nation's illegal immigrants are uninsured, compared with 25% of legal immigrants and 14% of U.S. citizens. Illegal immigrants represent about 15% of the nation's 47 million uninsured people — and about 30% of the increase since 1980
Quote:
From 2001 to 2004, spending for emergency Medicaid for illegal immigrants rose by 28% in North Carolina, said a March 2007 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Researchers cited increases in childbirth and prenatal care, as well as injuries and chronic disease complications.
Rising health care costs put focus on illegal immigrants - USATODAY.com

Quote:
Carol Plato, who testified before a legislative committee, says the Florida Hospital Association estimates the cost is $100 million for illegal patient care.

Rueben says hospitals can not write off the $100 million debt being caused by illegals. According to Rueben, the hospitals have to cut costs or pass them on to people who can pay. Rueben says that is a big reason why health care costs are so high for people who have insurance.

Among the cases documented for a legislative committee looking into the problem include an illegal alien from Guatemala that ran up $1.5 million s in medical bills from 2001 to 2003 at Martin Memorial Hospital in South Florida.
Illegal Aliens cost Florida Hospitals $100 Million | wtsp.com (http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=104683 - broken link)

Quote:
Hospitals across California absorb roughly $1.25 billion a year in care for illegal immigrants, including about $26 million in Ventura County, according to a state hospital association supporting a national push for more federal funding for uncompensated care.

Leaders of the American Hospital Association are pressing the federal government to pay hospitals more for care of illegal immigrants. In a June letter to President Barack Obama, AHA President Richard Umbdenstock noted the federal Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act compels hospitals to provide emergency care for every patient.

"Yet federal support for hospitals providing these services to the undocumented population is virtually nonexistent," he said, suggesting the financial burden can compromise health care. "Many hospitals have had to curtail services, delay implementing services or close beds."
Hospitals may absorb $26 million annually in care for undocumented : Ventura County Star
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:53 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,999 times
Reputation: 89

Quote:
The Comptroller’s office estimates the absence of the estimated 1.4 million undocumented immigrants in Texas in fiscal 2005 would have been a loss to our Gross State Product of $17.7 billion. Also, the Comptroller’s office estimates that state revenues collected from undocumented immigrants exceed what the state spent on services, with the difference being $424.7 million
http://www.window.state.tx.us/specia...documented.pdf

This doesn't include local costs afaik but it's going to have to be some pretty huge local costs to take up $424.7 million AND after that 424.7 million is used up, the amount still has to be large enough for the state to want to take a 17.7 billion Gross State Product hit.

Last edited by huddledmasses; 07-20-2011 at 10:01 PM..
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:56 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,999 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Every state is suffering due to illegal immigration. Here are a few more.






Rising health care costs put focus on illegal immigrants - USATODAY.com


Illegal Aliens cost Florida Hospitals $100 Million | wtsp.com (http://www.wtsp.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=104683 - broken link)


Hospitals may absorb $26 million annually in care for undocumented : Ventura County Star

Hey more one-sided reporting. Show the amount of taxes from illegals that are being put towards these figures.
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Old 07-20-2011, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
When will you guys stop this nonsense? No one knows what illegal aliens pay in taxes. NO ONE. How can a state or the federal government make that determination without having the means to identify illegal workers? It’s ludicrous.
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