U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-19-2011, 06:47 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Are you serious?

A two-second google search will turn up literally THOUSANDS of actually reputable journalistic sources that will fill you in. You don't have to look for weird self-published reports from authors nobody can find any details on, or reports from CIS or other front organizations. Real, respected news sources with actual credibility.

Here's just a few:

Illegal Aliens Paying Taxes - CBS News

Illegals filing taxes more than ever - Business - Personal finance - Tax Tactics - msnbc.com

Many illegal immigrants pay up at tax time - USATODAY.com


‪CNN: 'Even illegal immigrants pay taxes'‬‏ - YouTube

Here Illegally, Working Hard and Paying Taxes - New York Times

Of course they file tax returns. Some even operate phony tax consulting firms. Otherwise, they wouldnít be able to defraud the IRS. If they didnít benefit from filing tax returns, they would treat our tax laws the same as they treat our immigration laws.

Quote:
An undocumented worker from the Dominican Republic who schemed with his girlfriend, a former postal carrier and another man to defraud the IRS of more than $1.2 million was sentenced yesterday to 4 1/2 years in federal prison and ordered to make restitution of $97,748.

Authorities said the worker, Angel Collazo, 25, and then-girlfriend Aphleen Quinonez filed 288 false returns between January 2007 and December 2008, but the loss to the government was less than $98,000 because the IRS caught on to the scheme.
Illegal worker sentenced in plot to defraud IRS of $1.2M - Philly.com

Quote:
Three more defendants who illegally immigrated to the Upstate pleaded guilty in federal court Tuesday to their involvement in a $13 million fraud of the Internal Revenue Service.
3 more illegal immigrants plead guilty to tax fraud | GoUpstate.com

Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) ó Thousands of individuals claiming the first-time home buyer's $8,000 tax credit may have been trying to scam the system, including purported 4-year-olds and illegal immigrants, according to a watchdog report released Thursday.
Home buyer tax credit fraud called 'disturbing' - USATODAY.com
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-19-2011, 07:06 PM
 
11,896 posts, read 14,364,183 times
Reputation: 7526
Top secret information: fewer foreigners are applying for work visas, they know we don't have any jobs.

Last edited by pvande55; 07-19-2011 at 07:07 PM.. Reason: Misspelled word.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2011, 07:35 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Of course they file tax returns. Some even operate phony tax consulting firms. Otherwise, they wouldnít be able to defraud the IRS. If they didnít benefit from filing tax returns, they would treat our tax laws the same as they treat our immigration laws.

Illegal worker sentenced in plot to defraud IRS of $1.2M - Philly.com


3 more illegal immigrants plead guilty to tax fraud | GoUpstate.com


Home buyer tax credit fraud called 'disturbing' - USATODAY.com
I can provide links to all sorts of US citizens committing tax fraud. Ergo, all US citizens are tax frauds?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2011, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
I can provide links to all sorts of US citizens committing tax fraud. Ergo, all US citizens are tax frauds?
No, they are not all guilty of these particular types of tax fraud. You presented one side, and I presented another. Arenít there usually two sides to every story? But, considering the fact that a SSN is required to work in this country, the wages earned and reported by illegals are fraudulently obtained. After all, they are either using a stolen or fake SSN. However, thatís a topic for a different thread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2011, 08:42 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
No, they are not all guilty of these particular types of tax fraud. You presented one side, and I presented another. Arenít there usually two sides to every story?
So your side is "a small fraction of group X are actual criminals"? Well big deal, a small fraction of people outside that group are also actual criminals.

And by actual criminals, I mean people that are actually victimizing people.

Quote:
But, considering the fact that a SSN is required to work in this country, the wages earned and reported by illegals are fraudulently obtained. After all, they are either using a stolen or fake SSN. However, thatís a topic for a different thread.
Well, duh, of course they're using a bogus SSN. But that's only because they're not allowed to get a real one. And further, so what if they are? They're not getting away with anything by doing this. They're having taxes withheld. They're not able to file for a refund, or claim EITC, or collect social security.

Are they breaking the law, yes. But the fact that they're breaking this particular law isn't in and of itself condemning since the discussion is whether this should even be a crime in the first place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2011, 08:57 PM
 
403 posts, read 280,796 times
Reputation: 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
No, they are not all guilty of these particular types of tax fraud. You presented one side, and I presented another. Arenít there usually two sides to every story? But, considering the fact that a SSN is required to work in this country, the wages earned and reported by illegals are fraudulently obtained. After all, they are either using a stolen or fake SSN. However, thatís a topic for a different thread.
So the taxes withheld from those people using fraudulently obtained ssn's don't actually count? Or the payroll taxes?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2011, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtoiletsmkgdflrpots View Post
I'm not up on the current laws regarding how people can move here and become legal citizens. In the old days people came here from other countries, filled out the paperwork and became legal citizens...right? What is different now? Is the process so different? What are the reasons people won't go through with the legal process? In other words, why do people remain illegal? Or, maybe you have a link to the nuts and bolts of the issue? Please and thank you.
From the perspective of illegal immigration, and why "people remain illegal", I'm not going to address the USCIS links a couple are posting. In the "old days" there wasn't that same "paperwork" to fill out anyway. There was also shorter and easier paths to citizenship as well.

Here is the citizenship "paperwork" of one of my Great Great Grandfathers:



If you notice, he became a citizen 3 years and 11 months after landing in the United States. As a German, he wasn't restricted from coming (no Ellis Island at that point), and didn't pay to naturalize. Remarkably easy, right?

These days, they call people using the same methods "illegal aliens". They often don't qualify to come legally (lacking the common denominator of a U.S. citizen relation) or become legal to be able to naturalize to U.S. citizenship. The image "Rockmadinejad" showed is definitive, any other way is not possible.

For illegal aliens, USCIS links just don't matter, that is for legal immigrants...

If a show called "The Naturalized" is played on the History Channel again, watch it...

It is a very good primer...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2011, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
So your side is "a small fraction of group X are actual criminals"? Well big deal, a small fraction of people outside that group are also actual criminals.

And by actual criminals, I mean people that are actually victimizing people..
You donít think people are being victimized by having their identities stolen? Here are a few of the hundreds of thousands of victims of illegal alien ID thieves. People have been denied unemployment benefits, medical coverage, have had their credit ruined, and much more simply because an illegal has stolen their ID. Yet, you somehow consider this a victimless crime.

Quote:
CLARKSVILLE, Tenn. Ė A Fort Campbell soldier fighting for the nation in Iraq is a victim, not in the Middle East, but at home. Heís the victim of identity theft. While Emanuel Marrero faces combat in Iraq, his wife Melissa Marrero is in the United States, taking on the IRS. Even though she is very busy, police are helping her. The Internal Revenue Service wants her to pay back taxes. Someone has been using her husbandís Social Security number to work and open accounts in California. The suspect hasnít paid federal taxes. Now, the IRS wants the money.
ILLEGAL ALIEN IN CALIFORNIA TAKES OVER SOLDIERíS IDENTITY | Identity Theft (http://onwatbay.com/2011/05/30/illegal-alien-in-california-takes-over-soldiers-identity/ - broken link)

Quote:
Linda Trevino, who lives in a Chicago suburb, applied for a job in 2004 at a local Target department store, and was denied. The reason? She already worked there ó or rather, her Social Security number already worked there.

Follow-up investigation revealed the same Social Security number had been used to obtain work at 37 other employers, mostly by illegal immigrants trying to satisfy government requirements to get a job.

Trevino is hardly alone. MSNBC.com research and government reports suggest hundreds of thousands of American citizens are in the same spot ó unknowingly lending their identity to illegal immigrants so they can work. And while several government agencies and private corporations sometimes know whose Social Security numbers are being ripped off, they don't notify the victims ó at least not until they come after them for back taxes or unpaid loans owed by the imposter.
The secret list of ID theft victims - Technology & science - Security - msnbc.com

Quote:
BRIGHTON, Colo. -- A 23-year-old Brighton man has been fighting five years to replace a Social Security number that has been fraudulently used by a suspected illegal immigrant since 2003, according to police and state tax officials.

Joe, who was 18 at the time, was working as a part-time laborer for a family business, said his mother, Tina, who's spent years trying to unravel the problem.

Despite resolving Joe's initial tax problems, state tax officials temporarily withheld his 2010 tax refund, again saying he owed several years of unpaid taxes, Tina said.

"On Jan. 18 we received a letter from the State of Colorado stating that his refund had been revoked due to collections," said Tina.

Why? Because the Social Security number thief, who often works for dry wall contractors and moving companies in Aurora, doesn't pay taxes, the mother said.
Social Security Denies ID Theft Victim New Number - Denver News Story - KMGH Denver

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Well, duh, of course they're using a bogus SSN. But that's only because they're not allowed to get a real one. And further, so what if they are? They're not getting away with anything by doing this. They're having taxes withheld. They're not able to file for a refund, or claim EITC, or collect social security..
And, they are not allowed a SSN, because they are here illegally. Hence, they do not qualify. Now, why do you think they are filing tax returns if not to receive refunds, tax credits through EITC for their anchors, etc? And, they do in fact receive social security benefits. Do a little research. Do you actually believe they would bother to file a tax return if they did not benefit from doing so? Címon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Are they breaking the law, yes. But the fact that they're breaking this particular law isn't in and of itself condemning since the discussion is whether this should even be a crime in the first place.
Yes, the law states that one MUST have a valid SSN to work in this country. The law also states that non-citizens MUST have authorization to be in this country. I realize you donít believe we should have the right to determine who may or may not enter this country, but that is simply your opinion. If you disagree with our laws, fight to have them changed.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2011, 09:39 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
So the taxes withheld from those people using fraudulently obtained ssn's don't actually count? Or the payroll taxes?
When did I say they donít count? I said they are fraudulently obtained. Is this not a true statement?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-19-2011, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Of course they file tax returns. Some even operate phony tax consulting firms. Otherwise, they wouldnít be able to defraud the IRS. If they didnít benefit from filing tax returns, they would treat our tax laws the same as they treat our immigration laws.

Illegal worker sentenced in plot to defraud IRS of $1.2M - Philly.com

"An undocumented worker from the Dominican Republic who schemed with his girlfriend, a former postal carrier and another man to defraud the IRS of more than $1.2 million was sentenced yesterday to 4 1/2 years in federal prison and ordered to make restitution of $97,748.

Authorities said the worker, Angel Collazo, 25, and then-girlfriend Aphleen Quinonez filed 288 false returns between January 2007 and December 2008, but the loss to the government was less than $98,000 because the IRS caught on to the scheme."...
His "girlfriend", as a "former postal carrier" has to be a U.S. citizen. What about the "another man"? Was his immigration status not newsworthy enough so it just covered the illegal alien, one-third of the total equation?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top