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Old 07-20-2011, 11:24 AM
 
Location: East Coast US
37 posts, read 22,979 times
Reputation: 17

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You are completely ignoring the fact that illegal immigration depresses wages, and it ONLY benefits the illegal workers and their employers.
Wrong. It benefits everyone who buys those products as well.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:26 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You are completely ignoring the fact that illegal immigration depresses wages, and it ONLY benefits the illegal workers and their employers. How do the displaced, and now unemployed workers benefit? Moreover, why should ANY illegal alien replace a legal worker? This isnít an issue of having a shortage of qualified workers. This is simply to satisfy greed.
The price of all sorts of things I buy is influenced by labor.

many years ago, a watch was a complicated piece of machinery that required a highly-skilled worker to manually assemble. Now they're highly simplified electronic devices and are assembled by low-skill workers.

And watches are magically much, much more affordable now.

Obviously old swiss grandpas up in the mountains would be much better off if those cheap watches were illegal. But I would be much much worse off.

Amazingly, watch manufacturers are not just POCKETING THE SAVINGS on labor and trying to sell a $25 timex for $2500. Why is that?
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:29 AM
 
Location: California
884 posts, read 584,962 times
Reputation: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
And by actual criminals, I mean people that are actually victimizing people.
I am a victim of illegal immigration. For starters when looking up my SS# for employment, I am not only myself, but a women name gloria sanchez. I am able to work in Los Angles and Sacramento at the same time.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:34 AM
 
Location: California
884 posts, read 584,962 times
Reputation: 293
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDros View Post
Wrong. It benefits everyone who buys those products as well.
Could you elaborate on what products those would be?
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickDros View Post
Wrong. It benefits everyone who buys those products as well.
Oh really? I suppose thatís why ALL of our prices continue to skyrocket.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Thatís history. We are now living in the year 2011. Times change, as do our laws and needs.
Then why bring up past "Amnesties" or refer to the families of "Anchor Babies" that should not otherwise be here? The past is the past, whether that is a matter of years or centuries. Do our principles about U.S. citizenship also change with the times, considering our ancestors to have universally "earned" it anyway, no matter what work they did?

The Great Great Grandfather I referenced was very illustrious in his smithy work and management, but had notable court cases that went against him for his willingly deceptive land speculation sales. When he died, his wife was effectively put in the poor house for the rest of her life.

I object to us glorifying our ancestors and applying that unattainable standard to our principles now. Treating the recent past differently from the distant past is wrong, especially by using the same argument. The law is definitive and understandable, but if we are going to talk about current enforcement we shouldn't be pridefully deceiving ourselves about our own possible origins.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:42 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Oh really? I suppose thatís why ALL of our prices continue to skyrocket.
Because only one variable affects prices, right? Cut subsidies to farms and prices will shoot up, and you'd probably be in here talking about how clearly cheap labor is ineffective.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:44 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridian Ideals View Post
Because there is empirical evidence that shows that our immigration process is preventing many people from becoming legal members of our society who would be/ already are productive members of our society.
No there isn't.

Someone with three kids, a junior high school education, no fluent English and a ten dollar an hour off the books job is not a productive citizen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
According to Benicar they are. Here I'll quote her since you apparently missed it.




And to answer the question, I think it should be easier for anyone who wants to work as long as they pass a criminal background check, etc. Period.
I think you should take some time and actually think. We don't have the jobs for them. Americans are not responsible for providing for the economic needs of all the world's peoples. We're certainly not legally let alone morally responsible for the needs of Latin America's underclass.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Unfortunately, due to massive illegal immigration, our middle class is being decimated. So, sadly, the ďAmerican DreamĒ is becoming nothing but a fond memory. Itís way past time for Mexicans to fight for their ďMexican Dream.Ē Why arenít you advocating that?
Exactly. Why aren't people supposed to stay home and fight for their own country? Why should they get to move here and demand things from the American public?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
In 1986, our government amnestied 3 million illegals, and promised it would be the LAST time. They said our laws would be stringently enforced, our borders would be secured, and consequently, we would NEVER have massive numbers of foreigners entering our country illegally. NONE of their promises were kept. As a result, we now have untold millions living in our country illegally. Why on earth should we believe another amnesty would not have similar, if not even more devastating results? Common sense dictates we should not reward unlawful behavior. It only serves as a magnet for more.
Common sense is not a noted feature of the pro-illegal lobby.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
I never explained how I would personally benefit, actually, although we all would. Well we talked about prices, too, but since you guys don't believe in that sort of economics 101, I'll break this down the best way I can think of.

Let's say there is one worker, Bob, who can do job X. There is one employer who is willing to pay up to $15/hr for the labor, but after that he loses any profitability. Bob comes in and offers to do the job for $10/hr.

Who just benefited there? Who could have benefited more? Was anyone wronged?
Bob doesn't speak English, has three kids and will not be able to feed his family on 20k a year even in rural Iowa. The only way he's going to survive economically is to get food stamps and crowd his family into substandard housing. Bob's also going to ship a big chunk of his earnings to Mexico thus propping up a bad system there and making it easier for his relatives to have babies they cannot afford and remain out of the workforce. Why should the American taxpayer have to subsidize Bob so the employer can make a profit?
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
The price of all sorts of things I buy is influenced by labor.

many years ago, a watch was a complicated piece of machinery that required a highly-skilled worker to manually assemble. Now they're highly simplified electronic devices and are assembled by low-skill workers.

And watches are magically much, much more affordable now.

Obviously old swiss grandpas up in the mountains would be much better off if those cheap watches were illegal. But I would be much much worse off.

Amazingly, watch manufacturers are not just POCKETING THE SAVINGS on labor and trying to sell a $25 timex for $2500. Why is that?
But, we arenít discussing watches. We are discussing the fact that wages in this country have steadily declined during the past decade, primarily due to massive numbers of illegal employees who are willing to work for less. That does NOT benefit the citizens of this country.

Moreover, for the first time, our children cannot expect to surpass our standard of living. In fact, many recent college grads are now forced to remain at home simply because the cost of living will not allow them to afford an apartment, car, food, etc. That is certainly not my idea of progress.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvmycountry View Post
I am a victim of illegal immigration. For starters when looking up my SS# for employment, I am not only myself, but a women name gloria sanchez. I am able to work in Los Angles and Sacramento at the same time.
Is it possible that "Gloria Sanchez" is also able to legally have the same Social Security number as you? How many available combinations of digits are in the number compared to the entire U.S. population of 310+ million? I suggest you contact Gloria Sanchez (but not misuse her legitimate Social Security number in the process) to apologize for your failure to understand math, and assuming any illegality because of her (or her husband's) surname.

If you can verify your name against the number, why can't the IRS, credit organizations, and employers do the same?...
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