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View Poll Results: Should the US deport illegal immigrants and better prevent their arrival?
Yes. 109 83.21%
No. 22 16.79%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-24-2011, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,063,772 times
Reputation: 6518

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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
How about the foreigners that came here without going through an immigration depot? Was there any checks when filling out a citizenship document as to how they arrived? Your principles differ with the times an event is placed in.
If they flew here their VISA at point of entery is scanned and they are in the system. Boats or by land??? I dont know.
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Old 07-24-2011, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,952,516 times
Reputation: 3029
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
How much "heartache" was to actually become U.S. citizens? You're confusing some work ethic and travel difficulties into a Starship Troopers theme that somehow earned them citizenship here. Later ancestors of your would have "earned" that same citizenship just by being born here.

The person making that comparison served most of the last 25 years for this country, more in line with that concept of truly "earned" citizenship. I legally immigrated my wife and stepchildren through a long and costly process, how dare you compare the actual means that some of your ancestors went through to come here to that (with my family not even U.S. citizens yet). On this forum it isn't even restrained to focus on illegal immigration, but to talk smack about Mexico and Mexicans, whether they are immigrating or not.

Word away, your ancestors can answer me through you to how they actually gained citizenship, not anything else you want to attach to it...

Hint, it's going to be very similar to my Great Great Grandfather, illustrious as he was, but just coming down to filling out a single page of paper...
Why do you continue to dwell on the past? Does the prior mode of entry, requirements, etc. actually make a difference, or have even a modicum of relevance to our current MASSIVE illegal immigration problem? That was then. Get over it. Our needs and laws have since changed. Foreigners can either abide by our laws, or we don’t need them. It’s just that simple.
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Old 07-24-2011, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,180 posts, read 26,895,152 times
Reputation: 6461
Someone sent me a rep with the comment "Fox News also controlled by elite globalists."

No name was left, of course. Why don't people just use the DM (direct message) instead of the rep? Wait, I already know why... so I can't reply!

Anyway, maybe this person thinks there should be no Fox News, like back in the '80s and early '90s when all we had was the Clinton News Network (CNN).
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Old 07-24-2011, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,059,945 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Why do you continue to dwell on the past? Does the prior mode of entry, requirements, etc. actually make a difference, or have even a modicum of relevance to our current MASSIVE illegal immigration problem? That was then. Get over it. Our needs and laws have since changed. Foreigners can either abide by our laws, or we don’t need them. It’s just that simple.
Because gaining citizenship is being misrepresented as more than it was. People act like hardships of the old country, travel here, and a work ethic is linked into the very limited requirements to become a citizen back then. And when another group has those same attributes in the modern-day world, Lord knows we can't let them get the same thing.

This irony was fully realized with a post here that claimed foreigners didn't have any "God-given" right to come here, unless it turned out, they came in the past...
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Old 07-24-2011, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,952,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Because gaining citizenship is being misrepresented as more than it was. People act like hardships of the old country, travel here, and a work ethic is linked into the very limited requirements to become a citizen back then. And when another group has those same attributes in the modern-day world, Lord knows we can't let them get the same thing.

This irony was fully realized with a post here that claimed foreigners didn't have any "God-given" right to come here, unless it turned out, they came in the past...
But, we no longer need those “same attributes.” Then, we basically needed warm bodies. In other words, it was fine if immigrants were uneducated and low-skilled. In addition, then, it was sink or swim. They could not simply come here and give birth, and then live comfortably from tax-funded handouts. Today, we need people with skills. Unfortunately, most illegals are uneducated and unskilled, and have very little to contribute, while they continue to cost us billions. Again, we are living during a much different time. Sorry, but we simply do not need them.
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Old 07-24-2011, 04:14 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,413,379 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Because gaining citizenship is being misrepresented as more than it was. People act like hardships of the old country, travel here, and a work ethic is linked into the very limited requirements to become a citizen back then. And when another group has those same attributes in the modern-day world, Lord knows we can't let them get the same thing.

This irony was fully realized with a post here that claimed foreigners didn't have any "God-given" right to come here, unless it turned out, they came in the past...
You are ignoring the fact that back then once you immigrated here you did so without government support. If you couldn't make it here economically you left. Today illegals stick around, give birth to anchors and then claim all kinds of benefits based on having given birth.

The United States literally owes the rest of the world nothing with our immigration policies. Nothing. The only purpose of our immigration laws should be to make sure that Americans benefit. We certainly don't owe illegals citizenship just because they skipped the line and broke in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
But, we no longer need those “same attributes.” Then, we basically needed warm bodies. In other words, it was fine if immigrants were uneducated and low-skilled. In addition, then, it was sink or swim. They could not simply come here and give birth, and then live comfortably from tax-funded handouts. Today, we need people with skills. Unfortunately, most illegals are uneducated and unskilled, and have very little to contribute, while they continue to cost us billions. Again, we are living during a much different time. Sorry, but we simply do not need them.
We certainly don't need them when many Americans are unemployed.
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Old 07-24-2011, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,059,945 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
But, we no longer need those “same attributes.” Then, we basically needed warm bodies. In other words, it was fine if immigrants were uneducated and low-skilled. In addition, then, it was sink or swim. They could not simply come here and give birth, and then live comfortably from tax-funded handouts. Today, we need people with skills. Unfortunately, most illegals are uneducated and unskilled, and have very little to contribute, while they continue to cost us billions. Again, we are living during a much different time. Sorry, but we simply do not need them.
So it is the skill set rather than any other notable attributes now? I'm fine with the representation that immigration and citizenship requirements are stricter currently. But why is there a misrepresentation of what it took to actually get citizenship in the past?
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Old 07-24-2011, 04:34 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 59,285,480 times
Reputation: 22185
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
How about the foreigners that came here without going through an immigration depot? Was there any checks when filling out a citizenship document as to how they arrived? Your principles differ with the times an event is placed in.
Why are you so hung-up by the past? It's really not that we can go back in time and change anything. The past is the past but also there weren't Medicaid programs, WIC and food stamps in the past and also those immigrants that couldn't hack it were packing up and getting back on ships headed back to where they came from.

And also there was a whole lot of empty land back then and also policies to remove current inhabitants and put them on reservations. People also could buy slaves. Nothing in the past justifies what we do today.
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Old 07-24-2011, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,059,945 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
You are ignoring the fact that back then once you immigrated here you did so without government support. If you couldn't make it here economically you left. Today illegals stick around, give birth to anchors and then claim all kinds of benefits based on having given birth.

The United States literally owes the rest of the world nothing with our immigration policies. Nothing. The only purpose of our immigration laws should be to make sure that Americans benefit. We certainly don't owe illegals citizenship just because they skipped the line and broke in.

We certainly don't need them when many Americans are unemployed.
My comment was why illegal aliens have this comparison to someone's ancestors gaining citizenship, all the way down to equating the boat trip as part of the criteria. Is it a matter of withholding benefits or citizenship from illegal aliens? Certainly you are saying they are already getting one without the other.
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,059,945 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Why are you so hung-up by the past? It's really not that we can go back in time and change anything. The past is the past but also there weren't Medicaid programs, WIC and food stamps in the past and also those immigrants that couldn't hack it were packing up and getting back on ships headed back to where they came from.

And also there was a whole lot of empty land back then and also policies to remove current inhabitants and put them on reservations. People also could buy slaves. Nothing in the past justifies what we do today.
The principles of the past don't matter anymore? This forum is the first place I have heard now by two separate posters about anyone returning back to where they came from (a voyage of that extent was whimsical, and they forgot the reason they left in the first place?). Granted my study of ancestry would undercount that aspect (if I am here, it tends to mean everyone of my ancestors stayed up at least to some point), but the only people I have been aware of going back is for wars as servicemembers.

Unless you count a Great Great Grandfather returning to bring a wife back to the United States, or a more distant Grand Uncle to tell other relations he lived like a king here, and would not return to their hovels...

So having more immigrants come back with them, not the other way around...
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