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View Poll Results: Should the US deport illegal immigrants and better prevent their arrival?
Yes. 109 83.21%
No. 22 16.79%
Voters: 131. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-18-2011, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Willowbend/Houston
13,403 posts, read 20,466,526 times
Reputation: 10198

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We need to make it easier for the best and brightest to come here. The we can take a harder stance on those who come illegally.
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:39 AM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
5,008 posts, read 10,525,872 times
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It's a conundrum. We have our laws and our law enforcement is supposed to, well, enforce the law.

But there's something that most Americans don't know about when it comes to illegal immigrants and migrant labor. We need them. People have been leaving farming jobs since the 1950s opened up city life to a very large number of people and farming practices and technology more than quadrupled food output in the last century while at the same time seeing America make the transition from mostly rural to mostly urban.

Where do we get the labor to pick the orange groves and the apple trees? Who will do the backbreaking labor of making sure the cranberries are harvested just right? Who will labor over the wine vineyards and roast the nuts and dig up the roots which have them?

Not Americans, apparently.

Georgia is a classic example. This year, the government passed a measure to clamp down on illegal immigrants. The result? Nearly $1 billion in wasted food, rotting on the vines and the trees and in the fields. They tried getting unemployed workers out there, but people would rather collect unemployment benefits than work, apparently. They even tried using inmates and even THEY walked off the job. Too hard. They'd rather rot in jail.

So, to me, I think the US would be much better off if they simply gave workers a temporary permit to work in the USA and if they keep it up with a bank account in the US along with a residence and don't fall out with law enforcement, then they should be given a green card after X number of years. I mean if they're willing to do the work, reward them. Can't think of anything more red blooded Americun capitalist than that!
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:26 AM
 
37 posts, read 18,302 times
Reputation: 41
No country has an open border (for long).
Mexico has a stricter immigration code than we do...if that tells you anything.
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:30 AM
 
Location: Northridge/Porter Ranch, Calif.
22,170 posts, read 26,815,385 times
Reputation: 6460
Quote:
Originally Posted by annie_himself View Post
Make them legal. Keep them.
Terrible idea. Rewarding law breakers is not the answer.
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Old 07-19-2011, 06:45 AM
 
20,353 posts, read 28,644,243 times
Reputation: 18298
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
It's a conundrum. We have our laws and our law enforcement is supposed to, well, enforce the law.

But there's something that most Americans don't know about when it comes to illegal immigrants and migrant labor. We need them. People have been leaving farming jobs since the 1950s opened up city life to a very large number of people and farming practices and technology more than quadrupled food output in the last century while at the same time seeing America make the transition from mostly rural to mostly urban.

Where do we get the labor to pick the orange groves and the apple trees? Who will do the backbreaking labor of making sure the cranberries are harvested just right? Who will labor over the wine vineyards and roast the nuts and dig up the roots which have them?

Not Americans, apparently.

Georgia is a classic example. This year, the government passed a measure to clamp down on illegal immigrants. The result? Nearly $1 billion in wasted food, rotting on the vines and the trees and in the fields. They tried getting unemployed workers out there, but people would rather collect unemployment benefits than work, apparently. They even tried using inmates and even THEY walked off the job. Too hard. They'd rather rot in jail.

So, to me, I think the US would be much better off if they simply gave workers a temporary permit to work in the USA and if they keep it up with a bank account in the US along with a residence and don't fall out with law enforcement, then they should be given a green card after X number of years. I mean if they're willing to do the work, reward them. Can't think of anything more red blooded Americun capitalist than that!
Exactly! How many unemployed Americans would take the agricultural positions held by many illegal immigrants? The United Farm Workers Union made public a campaign last year asking unemployed Americans to step forward and apply for needed agricultural worker positions. Nationally around three dozen applied as of summer last year. Where do those critics of illegals think much of our food comes from? Great idea, let's deport them all and outsource our food chain also!
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Old 07-19-2011, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Jersey
2,177 posts, read 3,268,171 times
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Despite some of you far right loonies wanting to see some Gestapo like crackdown and deportations,
none of that is necessary. Just make E-Verify mandatory and increase fines and penalties for those who hire them and this problem will sort itself out.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:05 AM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,486,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
It's a conundrum. We have our laws and our law enforcement is supposed to, well, enforce the law.

But there's something that most Americans don't know about when it comes to illegal immigrants and migrant labor. We need them.
We don't need them. Every reliable study indicates the costs associated with illegal immigration is many times whatever benefits are received from their presence.

Quote:
People have been leaving farming jobs since the 1950s opened up city life to a very large number of people and farming practices and technology more than quadrupled food output in the last century while at the same time seeing America make the transition from mostly rural to mostly urban.
The number of rural dwellers hasn't decreased, overall, though some areas have depopulated a bit, namely the result of agribusiness, massive giant corporations that have purchased family farms, coupled with the government that has provided benefits for agribusiness over small family farms. Agribusiness hires illegals, rarely do they hire the Americans they displaced.

City life was always available to people, if they wished to go. Suburbanization and the spread of urbanized areas, courtesy of the growth of freeways and home loans, along with what was mentioned above, is most responsible for this phenomenon. Furthermore, most jobs that are created are done so in population centers, so most immigrants find themselves to those urban areas. Note, however, it is mostly the percentage of the population that is rural that has decreased, not the rural population overall.

Quote:
Where do we get the labor to pick the orange groves and the apple trees? Who will do the backbreaking labor of making sure the cranberries are harvested just right? Who will labor over the wine vineyards and roast the nuts and dig up the roots which have them?
High school kids. People who are out of work. Eliminate welfare, and watch Americans take those jobs. If not that, have inmates pick the fruit. This is what is proposed in Georgia, and it's a win-win, as far as I can see.

Quote:
Not Americans, apparently.
This is a lie, that is told time and time again. Americans do jobs in these fields until illegals invade the area and force Americans out. It is why up until recently, when illegals spread over most of the country, Americans were doing these jobs in areas not infiltrated by illegals and where small farms were the standard, but illegals were doing these jobs in areas with lots of illegals and agribusiness.

Quote:
Georgia is a classic example. This year, the government passed a measure to clamp down on illegal immigrants. The result? Nearly $1 billion in wasted food, rotting on the vines and the trees and in the fields. They tried getting unemployed workers out there, but people would rather collect unemployment benefits than work, apparently. They even tried using inmates and even THEY walked off the job. Too hard. They'd rather rot in jail.
I live in Georgia, and you don't know what you're talking about. $1 billion in wasted food? No. A sensationalist writer who is in favor of using illegals said that could be the costs of not using illegal labor. By the way, the state never began using inmate labor, even though it is proposed, and may very well be used.

Quote:
So, to me, I think the US would be much better off if they simply gave workers a temporary permit to work in the USA and if they keep it up with a bank account in the US along with a residence and don't fall out with law enforcement, then they should be given a green card after X number of years. I mean if they're willing to do the work, reward them. Can't think of anything more red blooded Americun capitalist than that!
For one, it's breaking the law. Secondly, these people will never assimilate. They've proven time and time again that they will never seek to be seen as the same, and will always maintain the idea that they are Mexicans. Don't believe me, just look at what happened in the Rose Bowl at the U.S. vs. Mexico soccer game, where the fans were booing the American team and cheering for the Mexican team.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:28 AM
 
20,353 posts, read 28,644,243 times
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[quote=Stars&StripesForever;20078661 High school kids. People who are out of work. Eliminate welfare, and watch Americans take those jobs. If not that, have inmates pick the fruit. This is what is proposed in Georgia, and it's a win-win, as far as I can see. [/QUOTE]

I'm sorry but your flailing about regarding the topic indicates a strong lack of understanding, and I don't have the will to address more than one point. You mention high school kids, welfare recipients and unemployed citizens jumping and taking these jobs. How exactly for starters do you suggest getting them to agricultural areas to perform this work? I would suppose given your beliefs that they would be involuntarily rounded up and housed in camps? Typical well-thought out conservatism in action.
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:41 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,084 posts, read 33,356,114 times
Reputation: 16769
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
This country was built on immigrants and those with such a zest for deportation might not have been able to make their argument as American citizens if it weren't for their illegal immigrant ancestors. We truly have bigger fish to fry than worrying about this topic.
The US has had some form of Immigration laws since 1790, and the provision of deporting those found to be illegal since 1793. I know my ancestors who came here in the 1800's came legally and became citizens. There are legal methods of obtaining citizenship here and legal ways to live here, they need to be followed.

Two of the fiercest proponents of deportation and vehemently oppose illegal's I know, were born in Mexico. In the late 50's they came to the US through legal channels and did everything they needed to in order to be LEGAL and become citizens. Many times I have sat in their home and heard them argue that there are legal ways to come here and those who do not follow those rules and laws should be sent back, and if found here again then they need to be locked up (Not realistic in practice, it would clog our penal system.) Both of them maintain that if they could follow the rules, then become citizens of their new Country, then ANYBODY who really wants the benefits of living here can do the same, the others are just criminals. These are the parents of my best friend since kindergarten. He learned Spanish along with me in our Spanish class in school because his parents refused to speak it in front of their kids. Their reasoning: "They are Americans, not Mexicans... we speak the language of our Country in our home."
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Old 07-19-2011, 08:46 AM
 
2,402 posts, read 3,486,681 times
Reputation: 1265
Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle19125 View Post
I'm sorry but your flailing about regarding the topic indicates a strong lack of understanding, and I don't have the will to address more than one point. You mention high school kids, welfare recipients and unemployed citizens jumping and taking these jobs. How exactly for starters do you suggest getting them to agricultural areas to perform this work? I would suppose given your beliefs that they would be involuntarily rounded up and housed in camps? Typical well-thought out conservatism in action.
Of course you don't. You simply want to say that I have a "strong lack of understanding".

There are kids living in rural areas. Many teens have traditionally helped do such jobs.

The problem is that YOU LIKELY WANT illegals here, for whatever reason, and so you criticize anyone who wishes to do something about it. Typical tactic of the left is to claim "NOTHING CAN BE DONE", being defeatists, while at the same time yelling down and slandering those who offer solutions. Why? They like the greater non-white presence in the country, and any means by which it gets here is of no concern to them.

Nice try.
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