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Old 07-23-2011, 09:53 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,583,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
It doesn't matter if illegals are actually, in the real world, bad for the economy or not (even though they aren't). The point of this discussion is that one person argued that legal immigrants are good for the economy and illegal immigrants are bad for the economy, and if you follow the logic, then anyone who really wants to help the economy would be for legalizing as many as possible.
I don't think you are looking at the big picture on a lot of things you respond to here. You have to really micro-look at economy and people. Illegal immigration is also bad because the numbers are going unchecked. If we keep having illegal immigration (which no one knows the exact number of) then when will we see more budget and infrastructure issues around the country? It'd be nice to not have such a large number of uncounted people coming into the country.
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Old 07-23-2011, 09:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Again, the post I was responding to claimed that legal immigrants helped, while illegal immigrants hurt. If that is actually the case, then making the illegal ones legal would obviously make things better, so given that, then anyone opposing making illegal immigrants legal would be in favor of hurting the economy.

The conclusion here is that there must be something more than just "legal" or "illegal" that determines if someone is helpful or hurtful to "the economy".
Illegal immigrants bring a lot of "baggage." I hate to say it, but don't you agree? Low educational levels, normally an inability to speak English, lack of work skills. Legalizing them would simply make it legal for them to openly receive assistance from the government. So, instead of making them afraid to apply for assistance, we are going to legalize them and take away that deterent of fear? Oh, and once you legalize them, what, are we supposed to spend more money educating them and helping them find their way here?
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Old 07-23-2011, 10:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Your last sentence is technically true. But the fact is those people are ALREADY productive. The proof is in the pudding. People hire them.

When someone ignores facts that contradict their preconceived notions, that is bigotry. You can roll your eyes all you want.
How are illegal immigrants productive? Do you have some proof that illegal immigrants are "productive?" By productive, what does that really mean and how do you think (since you are proposing that) they are helping our economy? I am aware of the fact that many do have taxes deducted from their paychecks, but it is not enough to cover the overal costs of illegal immigration.

You can't ignore the large amount of illegal immigrants because you seem to want to take the most hardest working illegal immigrant and pretend that every illegal immigrant is doing the sasme. Many have large familes, are working, yet are still taking more than they give. Is that productive? And productive for who? Corporations? So we can go and eat a cheeseburger? The two things that I can think of are the taxation and the buying power that they have.

People hire them when they should be hiring legal residents.

Last edited by SoEdible; 07-23-2011 at 10:15 PM..
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Old 07-23-2011, 10:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Actually, the fact that someone is willing to pay them is PROOF that they are in fact productive. YOU may not value what they do but other people clearly do.
I'm confused about you all's definition of productive. What ... is ... productive?
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Old 07-24-2011, 06:43 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
I don't think you are looking at the big picture on a lot of things you respond to here. You have to really micro-look at economy and people. Illegal immigration is also bad because the numbers are going unchecked. If we keep having illegal immigration (which no one knows the exact number of) then when will we see more budget and infrastructure issues around the country? It'd be nice to not have such a large number of uncounted people coming into the country.
I agree. As I have pointed out countless times we just cannot take in all the numbers of "immigrants" that want to come here. Those that come illegally show that they have know respect for our laws so they wouldn't be good candidates to legalize anyway.
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Old 07-24-2011, 06:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
I'm confused about you all's definition of productive. What ... is ... productive?
You and I both know that is just pro-illegal propaganda. It has little to do with productivity but instead just gaining more profits by paying illegals lower wages.
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Old 07-24-2011, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Your last sentence is technically true. But the fact is those people are ALREADY productive. The proof is in the pudding. People hire them.

When someone ignores facts that contradict their preconceived notions, that is bigotry. You can roll your eyes all you want.
So, the fact that there are greedy and unscrupulous people, who exploit illegals and profit from their cheap labor, translates into productivity? You’ll have to do better than that. Show us the reports.

No, it simply means illegals will work for less. Actually, if they are so super-duper productive, I would expect employers to pay top dollar for their services, rather than the paltry wages they receive. Generally, the more valuable workers DEMAND a higher pay scale. Even if in the country illegally, if they are worth more than a U.S. citizen, which you obviously believe they are, why are they NOT being paid more? Hmmm. . .
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Old 07-24-2011, 10:39 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,385,999 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Actually, the fact that someone is willing to pay them is PROOF that they are in fact productive. YOU may not value what they do but other people clearly do.
Greedy employers wanting serfs does not make anyone productive. Including the serfs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
But making THEM legal too would be good for the economy. You'd rather crash the plane into the mountain?
No it wouldn't. The majority of illegals are high school drop outs from Mexico. Make them legal and all you'll do is give them access to the American welfare system.
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Old 07-24-2011, 11:03 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
I'm confused about you all's definition of productive. What ... is ... productive?
I'm confused about yours, since his is obvious.

It seems to me that all the antis here have been defining it as "particularly productive" instead of merely "productive" in the economic sense.
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:47 PM
 
3,046 posts, read 2,645,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
It should be called illegal criminal bill.

I wonder what planet he thinks he is living on?
Probably the one where he realizes that pretty much all American industry would come to a screeching halt without foreign engineers and other professionals. Companies like google can't be run by the high school dropout types who can barely make a post on here.
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