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Old 07-25-2011, 08:27 PM
 
Location: SELA
532 posts, read 879,441 times
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Please cite peer reviewed empirical research to support the claim made in the OP.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:44 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,594,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
It is up to the applicant to take the job or turn it down, however. The illegals are equally guilty. They know by accepting the job that they are breaking the law. They knew it when they initially crossed our border illegally.

This is what I agree with. I also agree that employers are also responsible. However, I think that people try to make it seem as though the illegal workers shouldn't be considered responsible. They know that what they are doing is wrong and will continue to take what they can get until caught.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:47 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,594,028 times
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Originally Posted by JetJockey View Post
Correction...most Americans SAY they don't have a problem paying a higher wage for American workers. In reality however, they purchase the CHEAPEST crap possible made in India, China or elsewhere. If people honestly cared about American workers, they wouldn't lay a hand on products made out of the country unless absolutely necessary.

I can guarantee you most people would choose a cheap made in China couch at Target over a more expensive, well made couch by a craftsman in the US. I've seen it happen time and time again.
I actually hear more people complain about not having enough things to buy that aren't made cheaply from overseas. The problem is that we are forced into buying things cheaply made from overseas because most of what is available easily to us is cheaply made from overseas.

It is really unrealistic for the majority of people to avoid buying things that are made cheaply overseas.

Also, your post isn't a "correction." That is your opinion versus what the other person made. Just as I am telling you what my opinion is based on my interactions with people in discussing where their products come from. I'm noticing a surge in patriotism lately when it comes to buying goods.
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Old 07-25-2011, 08:48 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,594,028 times
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Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No, not most. Unless you are claiming that most Americans are below middle class. Most Americans I know don't want that cheap foreign made crap that falls apart in a week. This is about illegal immigration anyway, not imported goods.
That is what I am hearing as well. However, for me, that is just what I've heard.
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Old 07-25-2011, 09:42 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,392,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Sounds like you'd like to punish the employers for acting in their own self-interest. Instead of, say, increasing border presence, you'd rather the government punish the people who just want workers who work for less?
And when those workers work for less they create problems. They can't afford decent housing so they cram themselves into substandard housing that poses a serious fire hazard. They don't speak English so we have to shell out for interpreters. They don't have medical insurance so they run to the emergency room and drive up health care costs. They often have children who need to be educated at public expense and qualify for all sorts of taxpayer subsidies.

Cheap labor has many high costs. Those of us who are sane would rather not pay such costs. Rotten employers should not be allowed drive public policy on this issue. If you can't stay in business without breaking labor laws you shouldn't remain in business.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:31 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,007,706 times
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Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
And when those workers work for less they create problems. They can't afford decent housing so they cram themselves into substandard housing that poses a serious fire hazard. They don't speak English so we have to shell out for interpreters. They don't have medical insurance so they run to the emergency room and drive up health care costs. They often have children who need to be educated at public expense and qualify for all sorts of taxpayer subsidies.

Cheap labor has many high costs. Those of us who are sane would rather not pay such costs. Rotten employers should not be allowed drive public policy on this issue. If you can't stay in business without breaking labor laws you shouldn't remain in business.
These are all exaggerations, but of course NOT ONE of these problems couldn't be helped by legalizing them. It allows you to impose minimum wages on them, fully tax them (they already pay large amounts of taxes, but you ignore that) you could prevent them from freeloading off of any health care, etc.

Cato posted a study I've never heard any response about explaining that legalization would in fact turn a profit for this country.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:31 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,636 posts, read 31,299,087 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
I actually hear more people complain about not having enough things to buy that aren't made cheaply from overseas. The problem is that we are forced into buying things cheaply made from overseas because most of what is available easily to us is cheaply made from overseas.

It is really unrealistic for the majority of people to avoid buying things that are made cheaply overseas.

Also, your post isn't a "correction." That is your opinion versus what the other person made. Just as I am telling you what my opinion is based on my interactions with people in discussing where their products come from. I'm noticing a surge in patriotism lately when it comes to buying goods.
This. This times a million. As a consumer if I want to buy American, often my choices are to buy foreign or to do without the item. Often I do without the item. I buy American whenever I can but our options are very limited.
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Old 07-25-2011, 10:57 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,594,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
These are all exaggerations, but of course NOT ONE of these problems couldn't be helped by legalizing them. It allows you to impose minimum wages on them, fully tax them (they already pay large amounts of taxes, but you ignore that) you could prevent them from freeloading off of any health care, etc.

Cato posted a study I've never heard any response about explaining that legalization would in fact turn a profit for this country.
Who pays "LARGE" amount of taxes? Sounds like you are the one exaggerating things. What is a LARGE amount of taxes and what jobs are they working that allows them to pay LARGE amount of taxes?

Besides, with their attempts at tax returns in tax return season, a lot of them get their EITC and tax returns back, often more than what they pay in taxes.

http://www.thesocialcontract.com/art...c_speech.shtml
http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...rns.html?cat=3

Truth is that just as easy as it is for legal people to work the systems, it is easy for illegal immigrants.
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:08 PM
 
Location: California
2,477 posts, read 1,717,139 times
Reputation: 299
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
These are all exaggerations, but of course NOT ONE of these problems couldn't be helped by legalizing them. It allows you to impose minimum wages on them, fully tax them (they already pay large amounts of taxes, but you ignore that) you could prevent them from freeloading off of any health care, etc.

Cato posted a study I've never heard any response about explaining that legalization would in fact turn a profit for this country.
You are contradicting yourself. If they are already paying large amounts of taxes, legalizing them isn't going to change that (you've presented assumption that legalizing them will increase taxes). You've also assumed they are all receiving less than minimum wage. Those that are working (unless paid in cash) already have taxes withheld and, according to arguments, file tax forms at the end of the year and must be paid at minimum wage or higher. Health care won't change for them either, as most are of low income and would qualify for State sponsored medi- subsidies as they already may qualify for.

It looks like by legalizing them, it will actually increase their costs as they will make sure they file tax returns and apply for all applicable tax credits and deductions.

CATO's study uses assumptions like "no more monies going to coyotes", and "other costs associated with illegal entry". CATO also wants to charge an "immigration tax" in order to attain the gains they claim. There are flaws in the USAGE model, it's mostly an assumed equation that takes limited (federal level) numbers and fails to account for State and Local costs.
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Old 07-25-2011, 11:22 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,594,028 times
Reputation: 1270
Quote:
Originally Posted by Liquid Reigns View Post
You are contradicting yourself. If they are already paying large amounts of taxes, legalizing them isn't going to change that (you've presented assumption that legalizing them will increase taxes). You've also assumed they are all receiving less than minimum wage. Those that are working (unless paid in cash) already have taxes withheld and, according to arguments, file tax forms at the end of the year and must be paid at minimum wage or higher. Health care won't change for them either, as most are of low income and would qualify for State sponsored medi- subsidies as they already may qualify for.

It looks like by legalizing them, it will actually increase their costs as they will make sure they file tax returns and apply for all applicable tax credits and deductions.

CATO's study uses assumptions like "no more monies going to coyotes", and "other costs associated with illegal entry". CATO also wants to charge an "immigration tax" in order to attain the gains they claim. There are flaws in the USAGE model, it's mostly an assumed equation that takes limited (federal level) numbers and fails to account for State and Local costs.
Whoomp! There it is!

I think that there are way too many illegal immigrants on the books by various means (citizen children, fake documents, or loopholes) that legalizing them won't make a difference in terms of benefiting the country. To me, what it does is simply reward them and create opportunities for them to take more. The days of the majority of illegal immigrants working for cash under the table are over. Most of the illegal immigrants that I've known through high school and college (working in restaurants) were actually receiving checks just like us.
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