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Old 08-03-2011, 11:13 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,162,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I'll risk a step off-topic:

Many Americans would be able to easily name the root causes of the Civil War. Name at least one cause or conflict that led to the Mexican-American War. Hint: Use your inverse premise from above ("Reconquista") that you state most Mexicans felt the United States stole their land.
Sorry, but I don't live in the past nor do I care what led to the Mexican-American war. It still does not give illegal alien Mexicans the right to enter our country nor does it give Mexican-Americans the right to advocate for them. I didn't state that most Mexicans whether they be citizens of Mexico or U.S. citizens feel that the U.S. stole Mexican land. However, the fact remains that some do and advocate for a "reconquista".
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Old 08-03-2011, 11:35 AM
 
327 posts, read 262,515 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
How are they American besides on paper, if they do not assimilate and push for an full force invasion?
Just like would you call a secirity guard a security guard if he doesn"t performs his functions but on paper he wants to be called security.
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Old 08-03-2011, 01:18 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,017,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Sorry, but I don't live in the past nor do I care what led to the Mexican-American war. It still does not give illegal alien Mexicans the right to enter our country nor does it give Mexican-Americans the right to advocate for them. I didn't state that most Mexicans whether they be citizens of Mexico or U.S. citizens feel that the U.S. stole Mexican land. However, the fact remains that some do and advocate for a "reconquista".
We can still keep this on-topic by reasserting what I think is the focus on many minds here: That Mexico is doing a "Reconquista" by the 14th Amendment, populating our lands with their people. To what effect that is being controlled or driven by the Mexican government, based on them remembering the results of that war with the United States, is arguable.

I'm fine with how that conflict came out, and wouldn't change it. To the victors go the spoils, and all that. Just be aware that the same can happen to us.

As most wars of the past, the Mexican-American War was over territory. The United States and Mexico had deferring opinions on where the boundary was between them, Spain abandoning all claims [EDIT] in that continental area[/EDIT]. As an expanding nation, with an eye turned first towards peace, the United States sent envoys to Mexico, that they might purchase some of the disputed land.

Those ambassadors were rebuffed, Mexico did not want to sell the land (at the offered price, maybe there was also a feeling by the Americans that they could take it by force if the offer was declined)...

What was the United States to do, we still wanted the territory so that we could grow...

Would we go to war for something like that?...

There's a little-known tale that Henry David Thoreau was put in jail when he didn't pay his taxes, because he objected to the lack of principles from how the United States started the Mexican-American War. His friend Waldo Emerson came to visit him in the cell, and made the comment upon seeing him:

"Henry, why are you there?"

To which Thoreau replied "Waldo, why aren't you here?"

Leading thereafter to the game "Where's Waldo?"...

I made that last part up, but the story is true...

Americans definitely have a different idea of what transpired for the Alamo. The victors also rewrite history to their liking, and teach their children the story they want them to hear. For someone to say they know history (whether they want to take heed by its example) without showing it, or say that everything was "fair", doesn't really explain why there was a conflict in the first place.

EDIT: I had some trouble explaining that Spain left that continental area above. I initially said the "Western Hemisphere", then "North American", but had the Cuban claim still got in the way. This actually enhances about the U.S. starting conflicts, because the battleship Maine blowing up was thought to be a sacrifice for the United States to fight Spain.

Last edited by IBMMuseum; 08-03-2011 at 02:17 PM.. Reason: For what lands Spain abandoned...
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Old 08-03-2011, 02:00 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,162,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
We can still keep this on-topic by reasserting what I think is the focus on many minds here: That Mexico is doing a "Reconquista" by the 14th Amendment, populating our lands with their people. To what effect that is being controlled or driven by the Mexican government, based on them remembering the results of that war with the United States, is arguable.

I'm fine with how that conflict came out, and wouldn't change it. To the victors go the spoils, and all that. Just be aware that the same can happen to us.

As most wars of the past, the Mexican-American War was over territory. The United States and Mexico had deferring opinions on where the boundary was between them, Spain abandoning all claims in the North American continent. As an expanding nation, with an eye turned first towards peace, the United States sent envoys to Mexico, that they might purchase some of the disputed land.

Those ambassadors were rebuffed, Mexico did not want to sell the land (at the offered price, maybe there was also a feeling by the Americans that they could take it by force if the offer was declined)...

What was the United States to do, we still wanted the territory so that we could grow...

Would we go to war for something like that?...

There's a little-known tale that Henry David Thoreau was put in jail when he didn't pay his taxes, because he objected to the lack of principles from how the United States started the Mexican-American War. His friend Waldo Emerson came to visit him in the cell, and made the comment upon seeing him:

"Henry, why are you there?"

To which Thoreau replied "Waldo, why aren't you here?"

Leading thereafter to the game "Where's Waldo?"...

I made that last part up, but the story is true...

Americans definitely have a different idea of what transpired for the Alamo. The victors also rewrite history to their liking, and teach their children the story they want them to hear. For someone to say they know history (whether they want to take heed by its example) without showing it, or say that everything was "fair", doesn't really explain why there was a conflict in the first place.
Who cares? That is all in the past! You apparently are trying to justify this reconquista attitide. You aren't Mexican so why is that? If we took those lands by force in a war (while still paying $15 million for them) then Mexicans can do the same rather than fighting with babies instead of bullets. How cowardly of a war is that?
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Old 08-03-2011, 07:16 PM
 
591 posts, read 722,285 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Yeah, I still don't see how that's an abuse of the 14th amendment. We're talking about citizens getting what they're supposed to get, right? You're not alleging any fraud here, are you? I mean, yeah, there is probably some fraud here, but that's not what this thread is about, is it? It's about brown kids getting what they're entitled to.

BTW, how much money do you estimate is being "wasted" on food stamps for US citizens who happen to be children of illegal immigrants?

Because they come to make the kids citizens, even while the parents are illegals. Mockery of the law. Meanwhile, a decent Desi person trying to become a citizen has visa problems time after time...

14th Amendment was to make all blacks citizens. It was a one-time event. It covered those alive at that time.

Last edited by Doctor Blues; 08-03-2011 at 07:18 PM.. Reason: typos
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Old 08-03-2011, 07:21 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Blues View Post
Because they come to make the kids citizens, even while the parents are illegals. Mockery of the law.
That IS the law. It's not a mockery of it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Blues View Post
Meanwhile, a decent Desi person trying to become a citizen has visa problems time after time...

14th Amendment was to make all blacks citizens. It was a one-time event. It covered those alive at that time.
Little more complex than that. A lot more complex than that.
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,017,472 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Who cares? That is all in the past! You apparently are trying to justify this reconquista attitide. You aren't Mexican so why is that? If we took those lands by force in a war (while still paying $15 million for them) then Mexicans can do the same rather than fighting with babies instead of bullets. How cowardly of a war is that?
The weapons of war are many...

There isn´t any desire to see if there might have been a historical perspective to ¨Reconquista¨talk? I´ve heard it has been taught in Mexican schools. Certainly if Mexicans felt differently there must be some reason, right? Is it organized to send the illegal aliens here?

It´s still remembered on our side in the lead of the Marine Hymn, for their assault on Mexico City...

$15 million was the amount (in that earlier time) paid for the Louisiana Purchase. For the ¨Mexican Cessation¨ it was $18,250,000 paid (less than half of the amount that the United States had offered before the war), and $3,250,000 in the assumption of debt from the Mexican government to U.S. citizens ($21.5 million total). The land gained was also bigger than the Louisiana Purchase as well.

President Grant, whom was in the advance through Mexico, along with many others that would fight each other in the Civil War, made comment in his memoirs:

¨...I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory.¨

He thought that the Civil War was retribution on the United States to pay the price...
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Old 08-03-2011, 08:59 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,162,216 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
The weapons of war are many...

There isn´t any desire to see if there might have been a historical perspective to ¨Reconquista¨talk? I´ve heard it has been taught in Mexican schools. Certainly if Mexicans felt differently there must be some reason, right? Is it organized to send the illegal aliens here?

It´s still remembered on our side in the lead of the Marine Hymn, for their assault on Mexico City...

$15 million was the amount (in that earlier time) paid for the Louisiana Purchase. For the ¨Mexican Cessation¨ it was $18,250,000 paid (less than half of the amount that the United States had offered before the war), and $3,250,000 in the assumption of debt from the Mexican government to U.S. citizens ($21.5 million total). The land gained was also bigger than the Louisiana Purchase as well.

President Grant, whom was in the advance through Mexico, along with many others that would fight each other in the Civil War, made comment in his memoirs:

¨...I was bitterly opposed to the measure, and to this day regard the war, which resulted, as one of the most unjust ever waged by a stronger against a weaker nation. It was an instance of a republic following the bad example of European monarchies, in not considering justice in their desire to acquire additional territory.¨

He thought that the Civil War was retribution on the United States to pay the price...
So are you using this history to justify illegal immigration into our country and/or the reconquista movement? Why as a military man are you sympathetic to Mexico and Mexicans rather than your own country? The past is gone. Once you accept that perhaps you can start thinking of your own countrymen instead.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:10 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,558,099 times
Reputation: 5210
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Do we also need to change the 2nd Amendment because of assault rifles?...

assault rifles are already regulated by the federal goverment through NFA34. try some research on what a assault rifle is before you spout off like that.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:11 PM
 
Location: somewhere in the woods
16,886 posts, read 12,558,099 times
Reputation: 5210
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Yeah I'm pretty sure the 2nd is way more outdated than the 14th...


if you understood what the 2nd was for you would not say that. the 2nd has nothing to do with hunting and sports at all.
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