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Old 08-01-2011, 11:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
So, even attaining U.S. citizenship, you would not relate them to having that position legitimately, because of that former illegal alien status?...
I don't understand your comprehension problem. I did not say that I would not consider them here legally if our government made them legal. All I am saying is that I object to illegal aliens being given that status just because they married a U.S. citizen especially if they have committed a felony like the one I described. Is that clear enough for you? One can disagree with a law or its ruling without dishonering it.

 
Old 08-01-2011, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I don't understand your comprehension problem. I did not say that I would not consider them here legally if our government made them legal. All I am saying is that I object to illegal aliens being given that status just because they married a U.S. citizen especially if they have committed a felony like the one I described. Is that clear enough for you? One can object to laws without dishonering them.
I ask questions for further elaboration. For the length of time that Uzo was out-of-status (his two children were teenagers), it is clear that his marriage is not fraudulent, nor was it functionally for him to "legalize" (his spouse appealed his deportation, but they had not done any prior attempts to submit an I-601 waiver). If Uzo had married before going out-of-status on his student visa, would you feel any different about him?

Notice we are going into nuances about his marriage compared to his time of being a visa overstay (when you say "especially", it means you object to a U.S. citizen's spouse legalizing whether or not they committed any felonies)...
 
Old 08-01-2011, 12:15 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
I ask questions for further elaboration. For the length of time that Uzo was out-of-status (his two children were teenagers), it is clear that his marriage is not fraudulent, nor was it functionally for him to "legalize" (his spouse appealed his deportation, but they had not done any prior attempts to submit an I-601 waiver). If Uzo had married before going out-of-status on his student visa, would you feel any different about him?

Notice we are going into nuances about his marriage compared to his time of being a visa overstay (when you say "especially", it means you object to a U.S. citizen's spouse legalizing whether or not they committed any felonies)...
I never said the marriage was fraudulent. It wouldn't matter to me if he married before or after he overstayed his visa. He didn't renew it for whatever reason and probably was working as I described. He needed to be deported for not following the rules of his visa. If he were allowed to come back simply based on being married to a U.S. citizen I don't agree with that ruling and I certainly don't agree with being forgiven a felony if that was the case. However, he was made legal and I do acknowledge that. How much more elaboration do you need? It baffles me that you come to the rescue of so many out of status foreigners that don't follow the rules when you claim that your family did it the right way. I think there is more to this than meets the eye or more than one wants to admit to. I would elaborate more on this based on the past but it would be off topic.
 
Old 08-01-2011, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
...It wouldn't matter to me if he married before or after he overstayed his visa. He didn't renew it for whatever reason and probably was working as I described. He needed to be deported for not following the rules of his visa. If he were allowed to come back simply based on being married to a U.S. citizen I don't agree with that ruling and I certainly don't agree with being forgiven a felony if that was the case. However, he was made legal and I do acknowledge that. How much more elaboration do you need?...
Uzo went out-of-status (on his student visa) because he dropped a semester of school following his father's death. He finished his degree plan despite being out-of-status (he felt embarrassed to return to Nigeria without the degree that he was sent to the U.S. for). I am not aware of whether he worked at any time, but thought I remembered his wife was working at the university, and may have supported him.

As I've previously said, marriage to a U.S. citizen is only the initial requirement for an I-601 waiver. Uzo may not have even needed that, as he also qualified to contest his removal based on living in the United States for more than ten years. With the I-601, working without authorization is dismissed very quickly, as they do expect someone to try to support their U.S. citizen family.
 
Old 08-01-2011, 02:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Uzo went out-of-status (on his student visa) because he dropped a semester of school following his father's death. He finished his degree plan despite being out-of-status (he felt embarrassed to return to Nigeria without the degree that he was sent to the U.S. for). I am not aware of whether he worked at any time, but thought I remembered his wife was working at the university, and may have supported him.

As I've previously said, marriage to a U.S. citizen is only the initial requirement for an I-601 waiver. Uzo may not have even needed that, as he also qualified to contest his removal based on living in the United States for more than ten years. With the I-601, working without authorization is dismissed very quickly, as they do expect someone to try to support their U.S. citizen family.
So you are saying with this I-601 that the felony of working with a fake or stolen I.D. is just dismissed? Why isn't that appalling to you since an American would never have his/her felony dismissed for that same charge regardless if they used the claim that they were just trying to support their family. Kind of a double standard, isn't it?

Last edited by chicagonut; 08-01-2011 at 03:58 PM.. Reason: spelling
 
Old 08-01-2011, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,011,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
So you are saying with this I-601 that the felony of working with a fake or stolen I.D. is just dismissed? Why isn't that appalling to you since an American would never has his/her felony dismissed for that same charge regardless if they used the claim that they were just trying to support their family. Kind of a double standard, isn't it?
What has tended to happen since at least Bush II is that a number of aliens (note that this can mean both legal and illegal) deported had an applicable felony charge put on them. That means if the individual later tried to legally immigrate, the charge gave the ability to waive it or not in processing. So the adjudicator could just decline the petition based on a gut feeling if they wanted to.

If you just want the alien gone from the United States, to wash our hands as it were, then a charge and conviction wouldn't really apply. I don't know what Uzo did or did not do. Remember, SCOTUS determined that ID theft had to have a intended victim.
 
Old 08-01-2011, 04:14 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
What has tended to happen since at least Bush II is that a number of aliens (note that this can mean both legal and illegal) deported had an applicable felony charge put on them. That means if the individual later tried to legally immigrate, the charge gave the ability to waive it or not in processing. So the adjudicator could just decline the petition based on a gut feeling if they wanted to.

If you just want the alien gone from the United States, to wash our hands as it were, then a charge and conviction wouldn't really apply. I don't know what Uzo did or did not do. Remember, SCOTUS determined that ID theft had to have a intended victim.
Well that is just another ruling that I disagree with. If someone regardless of their status in this country uses a fake or stolen I.D. it should matter not what their intentions were. They know the I.D. isn't theirs. I wonder how many Americans have done that and were excused base on that excuse? I would bet zero to nothing.

If an amnesty occurs millions who used fake SS numbers and I.D. to work or for whatever other purpose will be just forgiven. That is nonsense IMO.
 
Old 08-01-2011, 09:31 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 3,465,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Yes, I am very passionate. I don’t know about other regions of the country, but I certainly haven’t witnessed a decline in the DC area. Nor will I rejoice until our laws are enforced, our borders are secured, and most illegal aliens have left.

I was married to a legal immigrant for almost 20 years. And, he played by all of the rules, and jumped through numerous hoops to become a naturalized citizen. My passion pales in comparison to his. And, he’s a designated “Hispanic” from Argentina.

I fully understand why illegal aliens come to this country. Why wouldn’t they? The entire world knows the U.S. has become an illegal alien haven, complete with generous government freebies.

Yes, the educated immigrants have an advantage, and rightly so. My ex came to the U.S. to attend medical school. Why wouldn’t we want him, as opposed to someone with a 5th grade education, with 6 children, who will survive in this country from government handouts?

We cannot save the entire world. Nor are we responsible for Mexico’s underclass. Too many have allowed compassion to cloud their judgment. I empathize with those less fortunate, but I am not willing to drown on a sinking ship just to prove my benevolence.
First off, much respect to you and your husband (former husband). I wasn't trying to be condescending, and actually, I can kinda relate to what you're saying. My wife has said some of the similar things "It's not fair that they can just come in here while I have to wonder if/when my visa's going to expire." Fortunately, now that we're married, there's less chance of her being forced to leave the country. Like your spouse, she's considered "skilled" labor. And I'm proud of her.

I guess all I'm saying is that I understand that not everyone's in the same position. I've traveled to some really, really poor countries -- poverty that would make the Mississippi Delta poverty look mild by comparison. I could understand it if a family told their daughter that she might do herself and the family well to jump in a truck and take her chances to live in America. It's actually pretty dangerous, too, especially when you consider the shady people involved in human trafficking are also probably in some way connected to those who are tossing severed heads on the sides of roads in Cuidad Juarez. I don't think they're coming here expecting to suck off the government teet, and even if they were, it surely wouldn't be worth all of the garbage many of them have to go through: the extortion, the threats of violence and sexual assault. Maybe I'm playing the world's smallest violin here, but I'm just saying, I get why they do these things. Of course there needs to be control and I think returning them to the border is fair. In the end, it's the chance they take, but I sympathize with them. I'm not sure I'd have the heart to pick up the phone and report illegals if I knowingly encountered any. Wouldn't employ them, but wouldn't try to mess up their lives either.

In a way, we're all drifters.
 
Old 08-01-2011, 10:22 PM
 
3,951 posts, read 3,583,040 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenfriedbananas View Post
Assuming your premise is true, why would we aspire to be among the most racist countries in the world? It seems to be the only people who would are, in fact, racist themselves. Of course now I'm sure people will come out and deny it and hide behind the usual "They're breaking the law" responses.

I just get the feeling that whenever you dig a little deeper, concern over immigration is not really about immigration. It's about racial "pollution", isn't it?
That is not what he or she is saying. What I took that post as is wondering why Japan, that was historically a xenophobic nation can slide by without such criticism. Yet, The United States is scorned when there is any talk of immigration law enforcement.

I studied Japanese culture and history in college. There was certainly a xenophobic culture there and still remains in much smaller amounts.
 
Old 08-01-2011, 10:56 PM
 
Location: bold new city of the south
5,200 posts, read 4,108,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoEdible View Post
That is not what he or she is saying. What I took that post as is wondering why Japan, that was historically a xenophobic nation can slide by without such criticism. Yet, The United States is scorned when there is any talk of immigration law enforcement.

I studied Japanese culture and history in college. There was certainly a xenophobic culture there and still remains in much smaller amounts.

I am a HE, and thank you, that was my point entirely.

I did not criticise Japan, I respect their traditions and honor their views.
I just believe we should be held in just as high esteem for keeping our traditions and views.
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