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Old 08-11-2011, 07:32 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
I'm taking it from people who claim that illegals drive down wages. If they do in fact get paid more than minimum wage then how exactly are they driving down wages? Also, I doubt a fast food restaurant would pay their illegal workers more than minimum wage or what type of jobs are you speaking of?
Do you think the only way I can pay someone less than what I'm currently paying is to pay below the minimum wage?
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Old 08-11-2011, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,013,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Let me give you an example of driving down wages. In the construction industry a drywaller or other skilled worker use to make twice what those jobs are paying now and it is because of the availability of cheap, illegal labor.
Couldnīt you also have cheap, legal labor do the same thing? Anyone focusing on a ®skill® like learning to hang drywall, and undercutting the higher wages? If the same thing happens with legal workers, explain how it is any better.
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:30 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,731,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
I guess it depends where you live, I know some people who work construction and they all make $30 an hour or more (well before the crisis). I was shocked to learn this because I thought it was unfair that these people who didn't even go to college were making more than some college grads.
Why is it unfair? Wages in a normal situation are about supply and demand. If more construction workers are needed and there is a shortage of workers, then wages go up.

Not everyone going to college is especially brilliant or hard working, and if someone majored in basket weaving and finds himself earning less than a hard working American construction worker - why would you have a problem with that?

Or is it about "class", that the "elites" can have their high wages because they will compete with only legal H1B immigrants but the "little people" must compete against anyone from anywhere in the world?

Do you believe American construction workers are less than elite Americans? Lower than dirt so they must compete against the entire third world for their jobs?
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:54 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Do you believe American construction workers are less than elite Americans? Lower than dirt so they must compete against the entire third world for their jobs?
I work a white collar job and I compete against people making 1/10th my salary in Asia.

I up my game and I produce more than 10x as much value as they do.
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Old 08-12-2011, 07:13 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,155,041 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
Couldnīt you also have cheap, legal labor do the same thing? Anyone focusing on a ®skill® like learning to hang drywall, and undercutting the higher wages? If the same thing happens with legal workers, explain how it is any better.
A legal immigrant should be getting the same wage as a citizen does. Why wouldn't they?
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:11 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
A legal immigrant should be getting the same wage as a citizen does. Why wouldn't they?
Because they might accept a lower wage in order to get the job?

It's called competition, it's how markets work. There's not some central-planning bureau of wage scales that says if you hire legal people you have to pay X and if you hire illegals you only have to pay Y (where Y is, of course, less than the minimum wage).

This sort of bizarre thinking is pretty pervasive on this board (just yesterday some other guy couldn't figure out how it was possible illegals could make more than the minimum wage).
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,819,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
I work a white collar job and I compete against people making 1/10th my salary in Asia.

I up my game and I produce more than 10x as much value as they do.
Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Because they might accept a lower wage in order to get the job?

It's called competition, it's how markets work. There's not some central-planning bureau of wage scales that says if you hire legal people you have to pay X and if you hire illegals you only have to pay Y (where Y is, of course, less than the minimum wage).

This sort of bizarre thinking is pretty pervasive on this board (just yesterday some other guy couldn't figure out how it was possible illegals could make more than the minimum wage).
But, this isnít simply an issue of competition or global markets. At issue is the illegal employment of foreign nationals. I realize, in your opinion, laws are a mere inconvenience, and integrity is taboo. However, for those with a moral compass, the displacement of the legal workforce by illegal cheap labor is not only wrong, but is systematically destroying our middle-class.

I suppose you wonít mind if we suddenly have hordes of white-collar illegals entering the job market in this country, who not only far surpass your productivity level by working hours in violation of our labor laws, but are also willing to do so for half your salary. Iím sure you would still consider that just plain ole competition. Right.
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:19 AM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,065 times
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Originally Posted by benicar View Post
however, for those with a moral compass based entirely on existing legislation, the displacement of the legal workforce by illegal cheap labor is not only wrong, but is systematically destroying our middle-class.
fyp
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:23 AM
 
951 posts, read 617,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I suppose you wonít mind if we suddenly have hordes of white-collar illegals entering the job market in this country, who not only far surpass your productivity level by working hours in violation of our labor laws, but are also willing to do so for half your salary. Iím sure you would still consider that just plain ole competition. Right.
Right. Most educated white collar workers can get in the country legally to work though. Is the bolded another random assertion that you will scrape up some random video to or do you have a legitimate source? If so, they definitely sound like harder workers to me.
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:36 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Sure.
You doubt this? I work in an industry where margins are thin, productivity is easy to measure (my work is directly tied to revenue) and there's basically zero stigma to outsourcing to overseas suppliers if needed. I've got nothing BUT my own productivity keeping me employed.

Quote:
But, this isnít simply an issue of competition or global markets. At issue is the illegal employment of foreign nationals. I realize, in your opinion, laws are a mere inconvenience, and integrity is taboo. However, for those with a moral compass, the displacement of the legal workforce by illegal cheap labor is not only wrong, but is systematically destroying our middle-class.
this is 100% irrelevant to the point I was responding to, which involved two LEGAL workers competing for the same job.

Quote:
I suppose you wonít mind if we suddenly have hordes of white-collar illegals entering the job market in this country, who not only far surpass your productivity level by working hours in violation of our labor laws, but are also willing to do so for half your salary. Iím sure you would still consider that just plain ole competition. Right.
As I already mentioned, I *already* compete with those people - in my industry they don't have to enter the US to DIRECTLY compete with me. They DO NOT surpass my productivity (which, btw, is not measured in hours worked), which is why I'm still employed and making as much money as I make.

And yes, it's "plain ole competition."
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