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Old 08-12-2011, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Houston, Texas
1,164 posts, read 1,277,354 times
Reputation: 387

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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
Why is it unfair? Wages in a normal situation are about supply and demand. If more construction workers are needed and there is a shortage of workers, then wages go up.

Not everyone going to college is especially brilliant or hard working, and if someone majored in basket weaving and finds himself earning less than a hard working American construction worker - why would you have a problem with that?

Or is it about "class", that the "elites" can have their high wages because they will compete with only legal H1B immigrants but the "little people" must compete against anyone from anywhere in the world?

Do you believe American construction workers are less than elite Americans? Lower than dirt so they must compete against the entire third world for their jobs?
I know that not all college grads are brilliant, but we worked hard to get into colleges, most of us worked and studied which is not easy and then when we graduate we're left with huge debt.

I simply don't think it's fair for teachers, nurses etc to be making less than construction workers, carpenters and some machinists. I know someone who works at a railroad company as a machinist and he makes $26 an hour; but thanks to their union in 1-2 years it'll go up to $28 an hour. In fact I believe their laborers those who clean the locomoters make about as much or a little more than those with associates degrees. You really think it's fair for someone who simply cleans a machine to be making more than a college grad (comparing associate degree with laborers)?
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:17 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
You really think it's fair for someone who simply cleans a machine to be making more than a college grad (comparing associate degree with laborers)?
If you think that's not fair then pay the guys who clean your machines less money.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:37 PM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
9,585 posts, read 20,464,174 times
Reputation: 9077
If the 50 million lazy Americans (with alleged "disabilities") would get off their butts and work we wouldn't need ANY immigrants.

I don't blame Mexicans for illegally coming to work here, I blame us for allowing them to while also paying Americans who are able to work not to.
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:46 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by censusdata View Post
If the 50 million lazy Americans (with alleged "disabilities") would get off their butts and work we wouldn't need ANY immigrants.

I don't blame Mexicans for illegally coming to work here, I blame us for allowing them to while also paying Americans who are able to work not to.
There aren't 50 milllion lazy Americans who aren't actually disabled. Source, please. We don't need illegal aliens for anything. As for "immigrants" right now we have millions of Americans out of work so we don't need many of them right now either.

I see, so you would blame the bank robber but not the guy driving the get-a-away car? It isn't "us" as in regular Americans who are allowing this. It is our dimwitted government who is in the back pocket of corporate greed and salivating over the ethnocentric latino vote that doesn't mean squat in actual numbers.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:07 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canaan-84 View Post
I know that not all college grads are brilliant, but we worked hard to get into colleges, most of us worked and studied which is not easy and then when we graduate we're left with huge debt.

I simply don't think it's fair for teachers, nurses etc to be making less than construction workers, carpenters and some machinists. I know someone who works at a railroad company as a machinist and he makes $26 an hour; but thanks to their union in 1-2 years it'll go up to $28 an hour. In fact I believe their laborers those who clean the locomoters make about as much or a little more than those with associates degrees. You really think it's fair for someone who simply cleans a machine to be making more than a college grad (comparing associate degree with laborers)?
I think the USA was better off when hard working laborers made middle class wages. Higher pay meant higher taxes also. And they could feed their families without food stamps, even save and send their kids to college.

And when it comes down to it - can a teacher read blue prints and make from it a mold for plastic molding? Or can a nurse build a house, build quality cabinets?

A machinist doesn't simply clean a machine after all, and the higher paid ones learned their trade in 4 years and are journeymen tool and die makers.

I've got a degree and I work in my field with that degree - but I also am spared some of the hot outdoor work of a construction worker and my degree doesn't prevent me from trying to have a construction job if I thought I could make a whole lot more. Just like a teacher jealous of a locomotive cleaner's pay has the option of doing that same work.

I believe that wages and jobs should be a result of supply and demand and that wages will reach their natural place -- pay too little, you won't have workers, pay too much, and too many people flock to that career. Pay just right and you reach an equilibrium but seriously going to college is not especially hard - if one is cut out for it, and many college degrees are not especially difficult to obtain -- certainly no more difficult than many of the skilled trades.

I'm against unions -- at least when they get too far out of line, but there are ways to bust the unions without bringing in 30 million illegals to put them out of work forever. Simply relocating a shop to a right-to-work state can bust up the unions but still keep Americans employed.
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:32 PM
 
951 posts, read 616,793 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I think the USA was better off when hard working laborers made middle class wages. Higher pay meant higher taxes also. And they could feed their families without food stamps, even save and send their kids to college.
Yeah but unfortunately this country has to compete with the rest of the world.

Quote:
And when it comes down to it - can a teacher read blue prints and make from it a mold for plastic molding? Or can a nurse build a house, build quality cabinets?
Yes. I mean these are basic jobs you can be trained in to do in a few months. I made things at least as difficult as cabinets in middle school shop class.
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Old 08-15-2011, 07:58 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
I believe that wages and jobs should be a result of supply and demand and that wages will reach their natural place -- pay too little, you won't have workers, pay too much, and too many people flock to that career. Pay just right and you reach an equilibrium but seriously going to college is not especially hard - if one is cut out for it, and many college degrees are not especially difficult to obtain -- certainly no more difficult than many of the skilled trades.
But you want to disrupt that equilibrium by artificially messing with the supply of labor.

Quote:
I'm against unions -- at least when they get too far out of line, but there are ways to bust the unions without bringing in 30 million illegals to put them out of work forever. Simply relocating a shop to a right-to-work state can bust up the unions but still keep Americans employed.
Immigration restrictions are effectively unionizing all citizens into one big labor union.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:00 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,099,270 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
But you want to disrupt that equilibrium by artificially messing with the supply of labor.



Immigration restrictions are effectively unionizing all citizens into one big labor union.
HUH??

Please provide proof_______
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:50 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Proof of what?
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:00 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,099,270 times
Reputation: 2199
Proof of your claim
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