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Old 08-15-2011, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Except I'm not trying to trivialize the actual crime committed here at all. That's just something you made up.

What I'm trivializing is the argument that "if we got rid of the illegals this wouldn't happen." Because it's a dumb argument. Yes, it's true, but it's dumb because you're only looking at one effect and ignoring all the other effects AND the costs. PLUS, way back earlier in the thread, you implied that illegals commit DUI very frequently as a way of justifying a crackdown on immigrant drivers, but you weren't able to provide ANY evidence to back that up at all.
So, if what you REALLY want is to lower DUI-related deaths, then focusing on illegals is basically the dumbest possible way to go about doing that. If what you actually want is to just demonize immigrants and find an excuse to get rid of them, then this is probably a good tactic.
You are twisting my words. I have NEVER said we would end drunk driving if illegals were removed from this country. I said, illegals could not have victimized these people had they not been here, which is a fact. Illegal alien drunk drivers are solely responsible for these deaths; not citizens, or anyone else. Yet, this is something you refuse to acknowledge.

I posted a video. Had you bothered to watch the video, you would realize according to a study conducted in North Carolina, it was determined that a disproportionate percentage of drunk drivers are Hispanic, and Hispanic illegal aliens are the greatest offenders. I do believe that qualifies as evidence.

Quote:
A study from the University of North Carolina Highway Safety Research Center shows that Hispanics involved in car crashes were two-and-a-half times more likely to be drunk than white drivers and three times more likely to be drunk than black drivers.

Hispanics also account for 18 percent of drunken-driving arrests, while making up less than 7 percent of the state’s population. Drunken driving is also the number one killer of young Hispanic men in North Carolina.

So why is there such a high rate of drunken driving among Hispanics in North Carolina? Some say young Hispanic men consider drinking and driving a macho right of passage. Advocates say many who immigrate here did not drive a car back in their home country and have not been exposed to anti-drunken-driving messages and driver safety education.

Whatever the reasons, the alarming number of drunken-driving fatalities involving Hispanic drivers, especially illegal immigrants, has outraged victims’ families and some of North Carolina's leaders.
Focal Point: Crossing the Line :: WRAL.com


As for demonization, anyone who drinks and drives deserves to be demonized. Furthermore, I have no knowledge of the incidence of drunk driving among our immigrant population. I have only researched those who are here in violation of our laws. In other words, ILLEGAL ALIENS.

 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:21 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy5 View Post
Well, you call him an immigrant. From the moment he entered the country, he broke the law. Every state he crossed, he broke the law. When started the car, he broke several laws. And now, he has killed someone. Danny, his name is Danny. His children have no father, his wife has no husband. He is DEAD!!! Danny is dead. Danny is not a 'talking point', a 'statistic'. He is, er was, a human being. Danny was a father and husband, he's dead, and yet you call his murderer an immigrant. He is not an immigrant. He is a criminal illegal alien, who killed a father and husband.
Wow. I mean, I agree. Danny is a human being. You sure are trying hard to MAKE Danny into a talking point. If Danny were my son and you tried to turn him into some sort of cheap prop for you to advance your political agenda, I would be pretty pissed off. But that's just me.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:27 AM
 
Location: bold new city of the south
5,200 posts, read 4,107,506 times
Reputation: 6156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
They actually are immigrants. They immigrate here.

You didn't address his point, actually. Unless illegal immigrants are getting in more drunk driving accidents than the average bear, they aren't impacting the rate of accidents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Wow. I mean, I agree. Danny is a human being. You sure are trying hard to MAKE Danny into a talking point. If Danny were my son and you tried to turn him into some sort of cheap prop for you to advance your political agenda, I would be pretty pissed off. But that's just me.
I am more upset about the Drunk Criminal Illegal Alien that killed him. If he were not in the country, it never would have happened. You are an enabler.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:28 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You are twisting my words. I have NEVER said we would end drunk driving if illegals were removed from this country. I said, illegals could not have victimized these people had they not been here, which is a fact.
How is that different from how I paraphrased what you said?

Quote:
the argument that "if we got rid of the illegals this wouldn't happen."
I mean, clearly, this="illegals victimizing these people". I was not implying that you were saying ALL drunk driving deaths were from illegals.

Quote:
Illegal alien drunk drivers are solely responsible for these deaths; not citizens, or anyone else. Yet, this is something you refuse to acknowledge.
Really? Where did I refuse to acknowledge this? WHat I refuse to acknowledge is that ALL illegals are somehow culpable because of the actions of a few particular individuals.

I posted a video. Had you bothered to watch the video, you would realize according to a study conducted in North Carolina, it was determined that a disproportionate percentage of drunk drivers are Hispanic, and Hispanic illegal aliens are the greatest offenders. I do believe that qualifies as evidence.

Focal Point: Crossing the Line :: WRAL.com[/quote]

But that link did not show that illegal hispanics were more frequent drunk drivers than legal ones. It just talked about Hispanics in general.

Quote:
As for demonization, anyone who drinks and drives deserves to be demonized. Furthermore, I have no knowledge of the incidence of drunk driving among our immigrant population. I have only researched those who are here in violation of our laws. In other words, ILLEGAL ALIENS.
So if ANYONE who drinks and drives deserves demonization, why do you think it's a good idea to demonize illegal immigrants instead of DRUNK DRIVERS?

The fact that you've, in your own words, only researched illegal immigrants pretty much proves the point that you don't have any valid basis for demonizing them as compared to the rest of the population.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:29 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy5 View Post
I am more upset about the Drunk Criminal Illegal Alien that killed him.
Right, that's EXACTLY what I'm getting at. You're more upset about immigrants and just using whatever you can to make that case. Danny is just a talking point to you.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:38 AM
 
Location: bold new city of the south
5,200 posts, read 4,107,506 times
Reputation: 6156
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Right, that's EXACTLY what I'm getting at. You're more upset about immigrants and just using whatever you can to make that case. Danny is just a talking point to you.
They aren't immigrants, they are illegal aliens, criminals. They are breaking the law. You are defending criminals.

My question to you is, why do you defend criminals?
 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:48 AM
 
951 posts, read 616,596 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I posted a video. Had you bothered to watch the video, you would realize according to a study conducted in North Carolina, it was determined that a disproportionate percentage of drunk drivers are Hispanic, and Hispanic illegal aliens are the greatest offenders. I do believe that qualifies as evidence.
Actually nothing from the studies figures tell us if illegal immigrants are the greatest offenders. That's just the author's wording and since every single story in the video is illegal immigrants it's just pretty much just a story to hate on illegals using data about Hispanics. The study actually just says ALL Hispanics are more likely to drive drunk and didn't differentiate between illegals or legals. Do you want all legal Hispanics gone too since they are included in these figures?

Quote:
Focal Point: Crossing the Line :: WRAL.com


As for demonization, anyone who drinks and drives deserves to be demonized.
I agree but you are demonizing a whole group of people based on what a few do, whether they are a bit higher occurrences than other races doesn't matter because there are still millions and millions not getting DUIs.

Quote:
Furthermore, I have no knowledge of the incidence of drunk driving among our immigrant population. I have only researched those who are here in violation of our laws. In other words, ILLEGAL ALIENS.
LOL. That study wasn't a study on illegal immigrants so I hope you are either kidding, or have more data you haven't shown. That data was derived from ALL Hispanic immigrants lulz. The author of that video basically took a study, extrapolated Hispanics getting a higher rate of DUI and used it to rip on illegals. I'm sure you'd do the same, oh wait you just did.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:49 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy5 View Post
They aren't immigrants, they are illegal aliens, criminals. They are breaking the law. You are defending criminals.

My question to you is, why do you defend criminals?
A) please point to where I have defended the drunk driver.

B) does becoming a criminal wipe out any other status any person might have? because I can guarantee virtually every poster in this forum has broken a law at one point or another. Can we claim they're no longer citizens, they're CRIMINALS!!!!?
 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:51 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,884 times
Reputation: 124
BTW, buddy, that's the 2nd time you've claimed I've defended the drunk driver, and this is the 2nd time I've asked you to back up that claim, and so far all you've come up with is that I've referred to him as an "immigrant." You need to better than that or else retract your offensive claim and issue an apology.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 10:51 AM
 
951 posts, read 616,596 times
Reputation: 89
The study from U of NC also points out that the reasons for this higher rate of occurrence is most likely due to cultural differences and discusses ways to educate them to the dangers of DUIs instead of claiming they are all subhuman criminals that need to just go back where they came.

Last edited by huddledmasses; 08-15-2011 at 11:12 AM..
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