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Old 08-15-2011, 12:33 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,158,884 times
Reputation: 2130

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You are twisting my words. I have NEVER said we would end drunk driving if illegals were removed from this country. I said, illegals could not have victimized these people had they not been here, which is a fact. Illegal alien drunk drivers are solely responsible for these deaths; not citizens, or anyone else. Yet, this is something you refuse to acknowledge.

I posted a video. Had you bothered to watch the video, you would realize according to a study conducted in North Carolina, it was determined that a disproportionate percentage of drunk drivers are Hispanic, and Hispanic illegal aliens are the greatest offenders. I do believe that qualifies as evidence.


Focal Point: Crossing the Line :: WRAL.com


As for demonization, anyone who drinks and drives deserves to be demonized. Furthermore, I have no knowledge of the incidence of drunk driving among our immigrant population. I have only researched those who are here in violation of our laws. In other words, ILLEGAL ALIENS.
Twisting of other people's words in here and outright lying about what they have said is what this poster does best.

How many times do these pro-illegals have to be told that it is improper to call illegal aliens just plain old "immigrants"? There are two types of immigrants one who comes legally and one who doesn't. Therefore it is necessary to clarify which type of immigrant they are by using the adjective of legal or illegal in front of the word "immigrant" (I prefer alien myself as it simply means foreigner).

Last edited by chicagonut; 08-15-2011 at 01:48 PM.. Reason: spelling

 
Old 08-15-2011, 12:43 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 790,233 times
Reputation: 124
LOL. Calling them immigrants (which they ARE) is not "improper" by any possible definition of the word. The term YOU PREFER (to use your own words) is not necessarily the PROPER term.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,824,744 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
How is that different from how I paraphrased what you said?


I mean, clearly, this="illegals victimizing these people". I was not implying that you were saying ALL drunk driving deaths were from illegals.
What I'm trivializing is the argument that "if we got rid of the illegals this wouldn't happen."

That was not my interpretation of the above comments. However, if illegals weren’t here, they certainly couldn’t victimize, could they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Really? Where did I refuse to acknowledge this? WHat I refuse to acknowledge is that ALL illegals are somehow culpable because of the actions of a few particular individuals.
Nor do I blame ALL illegals. However, I do blame those responsible for maiming and killing our citizens; whereas you consistently try to ignore the carnage through repetition of your favorite mantra, “But, citizens also commit __________.”

Moreover, there have been far more than a “few” illegals responsible for causing serious injuries or death due to driving under the influence. Regardless, even ONE death should not be trivialized. Had one of your relatives or friends been included among the so-called “few” incidents, I doubt your attitude would be quite so flippant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
But that link did not show that illegal hispanics were more frequent drunk drivers than legal ones. It just talked about Hispanics in general.
No, it did NOT discuss Hispanics in general. The info I just quoted was mentioned in the first link I posted. Of course, you would know that, had you actually watched the video.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
So if ANYONE who drinks and drives deserves demonization, why do you think it's a good idea to demonize illegal immigrants instead of DRUNK DRIVERS?

The fact that you've, in your own words, only researched illegal immigrants pretty much proves the point that you don't have any valid basis for demonizing them as compared to the rest of the population.
Please explain why I should research or discuss drunk driving in general, given the focus of this forum, and the topic being discussed. Correct me if I’m wrong, but are we not discussing illegal alien drunk drivers? If the topic were teen drunk drivers, would it make sense to research adult drunk drivers over the age of 40? And, would my failure to do so indicate a bias against teens? Of course not.

So, the data from the University of North Carolina, which CLEARLY indicates Hispanic illegal aliens are disproportionately represented among drunk drivers compared to the general white/black populations, isn’t a valid basis?
 
Old 08-15-2011, 01:52 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 790,233 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
However, if illegals weren’t here, they certainly couldn’t victimize, could they?
Yes, of course that's true. But it's ALSO true about ANY GROUP YOU WANT TO NAME. So there's nothing SPECIFIC about illegals that makes them UNIQUELY suited for singling out in regards to DUIs.

Quote:
Nor do I blame ALL illegals.
Right, you just think talking about the ENTIRE GROUP in regards to DUI enforcement is OK and applying the SAME ACTION to ALL OF THEM as a response to this one incident is perfectly fine, but sure, you're not blaming all of them.


Quote:
However, I do blame those responsible for maiming and killing our citizens; whereas you consistently try to ignore the carnage through repetition of your favorite mantra, “But, citizens also commit __________.”
How is that "ignoring the carnage"? By your reasoning here, I could find a single case where a black guy gets drunk and kills someone, then say "hey if we just ran all the black people out of the country then black people would no longer be able to kill!!!!" and you'd be TOTALLY FINE WITH THAT?

Yes or no?

Quote:
Moreover, there have been far more a “few” illegals responsible for causing serious injuries or death due to driving under the influence. Regardless, even ONE death should not be trivialized. Had one of your relatives or friends been included among the so-called “few” incidents, I doubt your attitude would be quite so flippant.
Right, see, you're still doing it. Change "illegal" to "black" here and tell me if that paragraph isn't offensive to you.

Would you argue that I shouldn't be flippant if one of my relatives were killed by a black drunk driver?

Quote:
No, it did NOT discuss Hispanics in general. The info I just quoted was mentioned in the first link I posted. Of course, you would know that, had you actually watched the video.
I can't watch the video on this computer for various reasons. I read the article and it didn't make any specific statements about the rate of illegals compared to legal hispanics. If the info is in the video, just transcribe it here for me please.

Quote:
Please explain why I should research or discuss drunk driving in general, given the focus of this forum, and the topic being discussed. Correct me if I’m wrong, but are we not discussing illegal alien drunk drivers? If the topic were teen drunk drivers, would it make sense to research adult drunk drivers over the age of 40? And, would my failure to do so indicate a bias against teens? Of course not.
I don't think you should necessarily research drunk driving in general. But if you're going to say that illegals "have a propensity for driving drunk" then yes, you need to actually compare their rates to legal residents in order to justify that conclusion.

Quote:
So, the data from the University of North Carolina, which CLEARLY indicates Hispanic illegal aliens are disproportionately represented among drunk drivers compared to the general white/black populations, isn’t a valid basis?
I don't know, does it? It seems that if that were actually a conclusion, the typed article accompanying the video would have noted that.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 02:09 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 790,233 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Please quote one thing I've said to defend the particular illegal immigrant drunk driver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
A) please point to where I have defended the drunk driver.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
BTW, buddy, that's the 2nd time you've claimed I've defended the drunk driver, and this is the 2nd time I've asked you to back up that claim, and so far all you've come up with is that I've referred to him as an "immigrant." You need to better than that or else retract your offensive claim and issue an apology.
Bump for buddy. I know you're reading this because you're posting in the other threads. I want this settled.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 02:24 PM
 
951 posts, read 617,247 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
No, it did NOT discuss Hispanics in general. The info I just quoted was mentioned in the first link I posted. Of course, you would know that, had you actually watched the video.
Yes, the study itself discusses Hispanics in general. The author then uses the statement about their findings to relate to illegals when he/she segues with:

Quote:
"Whatever the reasons, the alarming number of drunken-driving fatalities involving Hispanic drivers, especially illegal immigrants, has outraged victims’ families and some of North Carolina's leaders."
This isn't part of the study and is just the author stating it based on no facts at all. In fact, it seems to me like the author is just saying that the illegal immigrants are outraging the victims' families more so than legal immigrants, not that they are causing more accidents. If it is stated in the study please link it.

The studies findings were:

Quote:
A study from the University of North Carolina Highway Safety Research Center shows that Hispanics involved in car crashes were two-and-a-half times more likely to be drunk than white drivers and three times more likely to be drunk than black drivers.

Hispanics also account for 18 percent of drunken-driving arrests, while making up less than 7 percent of the state’s population. Drunken driving is also the number one killer of young Hispanic men in North Carolina.
Yeah, nothing about illegals there.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
So, the data from the University of North Carolina, which CLEARLY indicates Hispanic illegal aliens are disproportionately represented among drunk drivers compared to the general white/black populations, isn’t a valid basis?
No it doesn't, it states Hispanics in general are more likely to be drunk when involved in a crash.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 02:25 PM
 
Location: bold new city of the south
5,200 posts, read 4,112,644 times
Reputation: 6157
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Bump for buddy. I know you're reading this because you're posting in the other threads. I want this settled.
If you read my quote you will see that I called him a drunk criminal illegal alien. Have you not defended criminal illegal aliens? This man was a criminal the moment he crossed our border. The moment he turned on the ignition, he broke more laws. The fact that he is drunk is just an added broken law.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 03:01 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 790,233 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by buddy5 View Post
If you read my quote you will see that I called him a drunk criminal illegal alien. Have you not defended criminal illegal aliens? This man was a criminal the moment he crossed our border. The moment he turned on the ignition, he broke more laws. The fact that he is drunk is just an added broken law.
Have I defended them? YOU are the one claiming I have, so back up that claim. The idea that you're going to just wander in here, accuse me of doing something, then when I point out I didn't do it, you're going to switch to this passive-aggressive "Have you done X?" as if it's somehow MY obligation to prove my innocence is hilariously juvenile. I mean this is like page 1 of the dishonest debate handbook.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 03:04 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 790,233 times
Reputation: 124
Buddy:

Are you a member of the communist party?

Do you hate America?

Are you sympathetic to terrorists?

Have you stopped beating your wife?

I mean, note that I'm not saying that you are a communist, or that you hate america, or that you love terrorists, or that you beat your wife. I'm just ASKING.
 
Old 08-15-2011, 03:16 PM
 
Location: bold new city of the south
5,200 posts, read 4,112,644 times
Reputation: 6157
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Have I defended them? YOU are the one claiming I have, so back up that claim. The idea that you're going to just wander in here, accuse me of doing something, then when I point out I didn't do it, you're going to switch to this passive-aggressive "Have you done X?" as if it's somehow MY obligation to prove my innocence is hilariously juvenile. I mean this is like page 1 of the dishonest debate handbook.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Buddy:

Are you a member of the communist party?Close, Democrat.

Do you hate America?Nope, Veteran, volunteered, 1969-75, heard about it? You?

Are you sympathetic to terrorists? Nope, I am sympathetic to my property, my country, and the values of a free republic.

Have you stopped beating your wife? Never started, were you bullied in school?

I mean, note that I'm not saying that you are a communist, or that you hate america, or that you love terrorists, or that you beat your wife. I'm just ASKING.
Are you a registered voter?

Veteran?

Volunteer in community?

Clean record?

Up to date on all bills, owe no one, free and clear?

I'm 60, CIA, Cherokee-Irish-American. You?, I asked you before, you never aswered, hmm.

What is your dog in this fight?

Just asking.
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