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Old 08-16-2011, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I certainly don't give a damn about "illegal" foreingers who have thumbed their noses at our laws, stolen our jobs and resources, increased our crime rates, used fake and stolen I.D.'s, overcrowed our schools, jails and hospitals. Why would any sane person give a damn about them over our own citizens?
There’s only one reason. GREED.

 
Old 08-16-2011, 08:52 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,383,737 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Well, SOME of them ARE the type of people we would want as citizens, yes. SOME of them aren't. The idea that because some of them are bad apples we should write off the entire group is pretty much exactly what racism, bigotry, xenophobia is made of. Especially when you combine this thinking in the SAME POST with "well, yeah some citizens are bad apples but we're NOT going to write off THAT whole group, because, hey, that includes ME and I'M not a bad apple!"

You can see the individuals in YOUR group (which is good!), but you're blind to them in THAT OTHER group.

That's bigotry in a nutshell.

Which is why we have an immigration system...to weed out the bad.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 08:52 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,250 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
It is not bigotry. It’s common sense.
Please provide your definition of bigotry, then.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:00 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,383,737 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
I'm pretty sure we have constantly held the position that poor people everywhere should be granted the same rights and respect. You guys care more about citizens than noncitizens due to some sense of community that allows you to create a hierarchy of human value, and we do not.

I suppose you feel the same about your parents as you do about...John Boehner, George W Bush, or your next door neighbor.

And I'm sure your parents want to pay for their best friend kid to go to school.

No hierarchy of human value, right?
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:20 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
I suppose you feel the same about your parents as you do about...John Boehner, George W Bush, or your next door neighbor.

And I'm sure your parents want to pay for their best friend kid to go to school.

No hierarchy of human value, right?
Obviously I care about family and friends more than random strangers, it's a natural human instinct. It's also largely irrational, a remnant of our evolution. I don't believe that my parents should be afforded more rights than others under the law. Hopefully you see the difference there.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:41 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,383,737 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
Obviously I care about family and friends more than random strangers, it's a natural human instinct. It's also largely irrational, a remnant of our evolution. I don't believe that my parents should be afforded more rights than others under the law. Hopefully you see the difference there.

No, I honestly don't see the difference.

Irrational or not, one of our instincts is self preservation. I guess it's OK for illegals to exhibit that instinct if what you say is true and they come here for a better life. So, it seems hypocritical that it would not be OK for people to want to preserve the lifestyle they have worked to achieve.

There are several levels of relationships we live within. For instance, the love we have for our parents is much different that the love we have for a spouse or a child. That is also human nature. Is it irrational, I'm not to say.

We also form relationships with business associates, other parents, an acquaintance we met at the coffee shop. Somewhere in that hierarchy we come to the love for our country.

By feeling an affinity to our country we are not disrespecting anyone from another country. We are just caring more about the citizens of our country than random strangers. And we feel the citizens need to be afforded the protection that our immigration laws provide. Much the same way you feel your parents rights should be protected under the law.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
No, I honestly don't see the difference.

Irrational or not, one of our instincts is self preservation. I guess it's OK for illegals to exhibit that instinct if what you say is true and they come here for a better life. So, it seems hypocritical that it would not be OK for people to want to preserve the lifestyle they have worked to achieve.

There are several levels of relationships we live within. For instance, the love we have for our parents is much different that the love we have for a spouse or a child. That is also human nature. Is it irrational, I'm not to say.

We also form relationships with business associates, other parents, an acquaintance we met at the coffee shop. Somewhere in that hierarchy we come to the love for our country.

By feeling an affinity to our country we are not disrespecting anyone from another country. We are just caring more about the citizens of our country than random strangers. And we feel the citizens need to be afforded the protection that our immigration laws provide. Much the same way you feel your parents rights should be protected under the law.
Very well stated. I’d rep you if I could.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:48 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Then, your definition of “equally” differs vastly from mine. You have made it very clear that you do NOT care about the citizens of this country. In fact, many of your posts reek of your disdain for the USA. Are you even a citizen?
A disdain for the USA and a despise of Americans is almost always at the base of the pro-illegal arguments. That's why they will always come out and stereotype all Americans as lazy, preferring to live off unemployment handouts, but illegal foreigners of course are wonderful in every way.

What is loved about the USA of course is the American money but nothing else of course.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:56 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,005,489 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
No, I honestly don't see the difference.

Irrational or not, one of our instincts is self preservation. I guess it's OK for illegals to exhibit that instinct if what you say is true and they come here for a better life. So, it seems hypocritical that it would not be OK for people to want to preserve the lifestyle they have worked to achieve.

There are several levels of relationships we live within. For instance, the love we have for our parents is much different that the love we have for a spouse or a child. That is also human nature. Is it irrational, I'm not to say.

We also form relationships with business associates, other parents, an acquaintance we met at the coffee shop. Somewhere in that hierarchy we come to the love for our country.

By feeling an affinity to our country we are not disrespecting anyone from another country. We are just caring more about the citizens of our country than random strangers. And we feel the citizens need to be afforded the protection that our immigration laws provide. Much the same way you feel your parents rights should be protected under the law.
No, it's nothing like how I feel my parents' rights should be protected under the law, because I feel that their rights should be identical to everyone else's. The "difference" you don't see is that while I care about my friends and family more than the average person, I recognize that this is the result of amoral personal biases, and thus I don't believe any of them should receive different treatment under the law. You are saying you DO believe people you care about more personally should be afforded more rights. Surely you can see that difference.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,884,971 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Well, SOME of them ARE the type of people we would want as citizens, yes. SOME of them aren't. The idea that because some of them are bad apples we should write off the entire group is pretty much exactly what racism, bigotry, xenophobia is made of. Especially when you combine this thinking in the SAME POST with "well, yeah some citizens are bad apples but we're NOT going to write off THAT whole group, because, hey, that includes ME and I'M not a bad apple!"

You can see the individuals in YOUR group (which is good!), but you're blind to them in THAT OTHER group.

That's bigotry in a nutshell.
You missed the point entirely. Never even hinted that citizens as awhole were good inspite of the few bad apples and illegals as a whole are bad because there are bad apples.
I said That the illegal groups has already demonstrated that they dont care about our laws.That they care more about personal gain than obeying our laws just as all criminals do. This would indicate at least to me that they are not the best choice for immigrants i would want to enter this country.
The better choice would be people even from the same country as those illegals who apply and wait their turn to enter legally.
My position is and always has been its not the nation of origin that is in question, but the total disregard for our laws by illegals. This disregard is what makes them as a group bad.
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