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Old 08-16-2011, 11:47 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,880 times
Reputation: 111

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
No, I'm saying all citizens of the United States should be treated equally under the law. Where did I say one citizen should have more rights than another?
I never said you did, I specifically said you guys draw the line between citizens and non-citizens, which you do.

To re-cap, I noted that you guys care more about citizens and believe that laws should reflect that hierarchy you created. You then asked if I cared about some people more than others based on how close we are. I said yes, but I don't want to give them different rights.

By the reasoning put forth by you and Benicar, we should create laws based on how much attachment we feel to people. Now for some reason you believe this should afford more rights to people in your country, even though the same logic could support granting your best friend more rights than your neighbor. You draw an arbitrary line and then assume it makes some sort of sense. It does not.

 
Old 08-16-2011, 11:49 PM
 
1,569 posts, read 1,006,880 times
Reputation: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Our government does afford more rights and privileges to citizens than non-citizens. Every country does. Iím not sure what point youíre trying to make.
Nothing new.

Your original point was that we give citizens more rights because you care about them more, and that's normal. I noted that just because you care about someone more personally doesn't mean they should be granted different legal rights. Then you guys basically just said "all countries do this." OK then.
 
Old 08-17-2011, 01:34 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,387,781 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockmadinejad View Post
I never said you did, I specifically said you guys draw the line between citizens and non-citizens, which you do.

To re-cap, I noted that you guys care more about citizens and believe that laws should reflect that hierarchy you created. You then asked if I cared about some people more than others based on how close we are. I said yes, but I don't want to give them different rights.

By the reasoning put forth by you and Benicar, we should create laws based on how much attachment we feel to people. Now for some reason you believe this should afford more rights to people in your country, even though the same logic could support granting your best friend more rights than your neighbor. You draw an arbitrary line and then assume it makes some sort of sense. It does not.

We do attach more rights to some people than others. And within each hierarchy substructure of our lives this is evident. For instance, if you were in your parents home you may feel the freedom to go and grab a bottle of water out of the fridge without being told to help yourself. In the home of an acquaintance you would more than likely wait until you were offered a beverage rather than taking that liberty. These are personal relationships that have unwritten rules or laws that we follow out of respect.

In the relationship that we have with our country, we pay taxes and in exchange for that we expect to have our rights protected. That is the give and take of the relationship. Because I am bound by the laws of the country, I expect everyone here to be bound by those same laws to create an equal playing field or relationship if you will. This is not an arbitrary line. It is based on the laws that all citizens of this country are bound to.

When immigration laws aren't enforced, that bond of protection is being broken. Just as you would wait to be offered a drink at a neighbors house before taking it, our laws are set up so that if one of our neighbors wants something, they need to have the courtesy to respect the relationship that the country has with it's citizens and follow the laws written to protect them.

We also have a relationship with the world. We have human rights councils etc. that have the power to issue sanctions against countries that abuse their citizens. On this level, all countries contribute when necessary to fight abuse and corruption. I guess this must be where you are saying you have the problem.


The entire world is built on a hierarchy system of relationships. And each relationship is built on expectations. I don't grant the same privileges to my neighbors that I give to my family. And I also don't expect them to mow my yard or sit by my bedside when I'm sick.

When you say you don't give your family more rights than random strangers are you inferring that you would welcome a random stranger into your home and give them the same freedom you would allow your family?
With every layer of our lives we have relationships that vary as to what our rights and responsibilities are.

It wasn't me or anyone else on this forum that wrote these laws or unwritten rules. They have been a way of life for generations. Yes, I believe the citizens of this country should have more rights here than people that aren't citizens. That is part of the bond that comes with that relationship. Illegals should be afforded the rights that are dictated by the laws of the world as that is the next level. They should not be abused but they should not be allowed the privileges of a relationship they aren't a part of in this country.

I'm sure I haven't changed your mind but I took the time to explain the way I see the world operating. Sometimes it takes a few years in life to experience multiple level of relationships. Until you have, it can be difficult to understand.
 
Old 08-17-2011, 03:54 AM
Yac
 
5,877 posts, read 6,307,966 times
Just a quick note to some that apparently can't make a distinction: Hispanic does not equal illegal. Also, since this thread is no longer following the topic and has become the traditional, generic back and forth, I'm closing it. I'm constantly baffled why most of you feel the need to discuss the same things over and over, playing dumb/ignorant when it suits you only to start yet another pointless fight and get a pat on the back from the same people you always do, but I guess it's not something I can influence... Too bad really.
Closed.
Yac.
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