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Old 08-16-2011, 08:33 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,760 times
Reputation: 124

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
They find jobs because many employers are greedy and unscrupulous. As for “mental gymnastics,” yes, I agree, it’s mind-boggling that you actually believe U.S. citizens are not entitled to jobs, yet illegal aliens should have a right to compete against U.S. citizens for jobs in the USA. How do you reconcile this?
How are those at all contradictory?

Quote:
Sorry, but easing our standards will not stop rapists, murderers, pedophiles, and drunk drivers from entering this country. After all, we won’t know most are such vile creatures until they actually commit their crimes. Gotta run.
The way you use "easing our standards" here implies that our current standards are primarily focused on keeping rapists, murderers, pedophiles, and drunk drivers out of the country. And I know you like to imply that illegals are all rapists and murderers and pedophiles and drunk drivers, but it's quite simply not true. But hey, we all know the truth is just inconvenient and should be ignored when it gets in the way of political agendas. I mean, just look at your record of lying about what studies say about illegals and drunk driving.

 
Old 08-16-2011, 08:48 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,096,522 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
We don't need more of them, yet they manage to find jobs?

Also, if you want to keep the rapists, murderers, etc out, opening the border would help a lot. By keeping the border closed you ENCOURAGE the black market in border crossings. Just like when booze was illegal, and the booze industry was dominated by violent gangsters. Once booze was legalized, amazingly the violent thugs all disappeared from the booze market.

If the criminals running human trafficking are put out of business, the few bad immigrants will have a harder time entering.



If by "you believe we have an obligation" you mean I believe the united states has an obligation, you're wrong. Of course, I've said this countless times but you just ignore it and continue making stuff up because it's easier.

How can you seriously say that I believe US Citizens aren't entitled to jobs (they aren't) and at the same time say I believe the US has an obligation to provide for some underclass? Serious mental gymnastics there.
Thats not true.

Actually there would be less tension & reduced added crime if we secure the border. America would be more secure.

The drug gangs are getting into human trafficking because they know we have an open border
 
Old 08-16-2011, 08:52 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,760 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by All American NYC View Post
Thats not true.

Actually there would be less tension & reduced added crime if we secure the border. America would be more secure.

The drug gangs are getting into human trafficking because they know we have an open border
No, they're getting into it because there's a market for it. The same reason they get into drug trafficking.

The war on (some) drugs is supposed to make us safer but instead has increased violence and wasted untold dollars and lives. Escalating the war on border crossings would have the same effect for the same reasons.

Just because people SAY it should "help" doesn't mean it actually will. Unintended consequences.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:02 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,383,008 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by huddledmasses View Post
Well, there are 12k+ jobs in GA available that disagree with you right this moment. I mean, it's cute that you play the whole "protect the American's jobs" bit but you are just straight up wrong! Americans don't ****ing want these jobs. The judges are making criminals do these jobs in GA right now and even they are walking out in ~30 minutes or less....and these are COURT ORDERED JOBS!! GA is going to lose approximately $1 billion this season alone. Those "peasants" (I'm sure you meant no disrespect) would be absolute miracles to those GA farmers right now and you are here making them out to be peasants that are of no value to the world.......ROFL.

Were the laws in Ga changed and I missed it? I know when the ruling came down it was discussed that possibly people on probation and parole would be of help. Could you please put up your link for people walking out on these court ordered jobs?

Will Ga really lose $1 billion this season? Please post that link too. That would be one hellufa "fine" if it's true. I'm guessing those farmers will be looking in to guest worker programs next year. Sure would be more prudent to work inside the guidelines of the law. Especially in an area such as farming, that is so heavily subsidized by TAXPAYERS.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:09 AM
 
9,243 posts, read 7,096,522 times
Reputation: 2199
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
No, they're getting into it because there's a market for it. The same reason they get into drug trafficking.

The war on (some) drugs is supposed to make us safer but instead has increased violence and wasted untold dollars and lives. Escalating the war on border crossings would have the same effect for the same reasons.

Just because people SAY it should "help" doesn't mean it actually will. Unintended consequences.
There is a market for everything.
That doesn't justify one over the other.

The government of that country is responsible for its people & criminal activity. Like we are responsible for our criminals here.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:20 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Were the laws in Ga changed and I missed it? I know when the ruling came down it was discussed that possibly people on probation and parole would be of help. Could you please put up your link for people walking out on these court ordered jobs?

Will Ga really lose $1 billion this season? Please post that link too. That would be one hellufa "fine" if it's true. I'm guessing those farmers will be looking in to guest worker programs next year. Sure would be more prudent to work inside the guidelines of the law. Especially in an area such as farming, that is so heavily subsidized by TAXPAYERS.
I find it hilarious that the pro-illegals keep using the crop picking argument when they have been told over and over that there are unlimited H-2A visas available to the farmers.

I'd like to hear them explain what the other 97% are doing on jobs that most Americans WOULD do. There were many raids on businesses across the country other than agricultural jobs and Americans lined up around the block for those jobs and I haven't heard of any mass exodus of Americans leaving those jobs after getting hired.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:27 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,383,008 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
We don't need more of them, yet they manage to find jobs?

Also, if you want to keep the rapists, murderers, etc out, opening the border would help a lot. By keeping the border closed you ENCOURAGE the black market in border crossings. Just like when booze was illegal, and the booze industry was dominated by violent gangsters. Once booze was legalized, amazingly the violent thugs all disappeared from the booze market.

If the criminals running human trafficking are put out of business, the few bad immigrants will have a harder time entering.

Why would the bad illegals have a harder time entering if we opened the doors to everyone? It just dilutes the numbers. Our current immigration laws include background checks for the purpose of separating the wheat from the chaff. Do you think it is too taxing on individuals to undergo a background check before entering the country?

If by "you believe we have an obligation" you mean I believe the united states has an obligation, you're wrong. Of course, I've said this countless times but you just ignore it and continue making stuff up because it's easier.

How can you seriously say that I believe US Citizens aren't entitled to jobs (they aren't) and at the same time say I believe the US has an obligation to provide for some underclass? Serious mental gymnastics there.

Maybe you just have difficulty in communicating what you mean then. Because you seen contradictory in your last two paragraphs.

First you say the US has no obligation, then you say that citizens aren't entitled to jobs, then you go on to say the US isn't obligated to provide for the underclass.

If that is the case, why do you think we allow ANYONE to immigrate here, legal or not? We don't have an obligation to. We don't even have an obligation to our own citizens. I guess that must be why the immigration system is set up to accept immigrants that are educated and needed in specific fields that will contribute more to the tax base than they take?

Am I missing something?
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:45 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 788,760 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Maybe you just have difficulty in communicating what you mean then. Because you seen contradictory in your last two paragraphs.
How so? If the border is open, then people are actually incentivized to go through the official channels where they can be screened. The black market for human traffic collapses. This isn't rocket science. When prohibition ended, gangsters weren't able to compete in the booze market. When Nevada started allowing corporations to get gaming licenses, the mob was not able to compete in the casino market.

Violent criminals are not able to compete against legitimate businesses. This is why gangs don't try to push cola, or ice cream, or cheeseburgers.

Quote:
First you say the US has no obligation, then you say that citizens aren't entitled to jobs, then you go on to say the US isn't obligated to provide for the underclass.

If that is the case, why do you think we allow ANYONE to immigrate here, legal or not? We don't have an obligation to. We don't even have an obligation to our own citizens. I guess that must be why the immigration system is set up to accept immigrants that are educated and needed in specific fields that will contribute more to the tax base than they take?

Am I missing something?
Do you think we should only do things we are obligated to?
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:48 AM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,383,008 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I find it hilarious that the pro-illegals keep using the crop picking argument when they have been told over and over that there are unlimited H-2A visas available to the farmers.

I'd like to hear them explain what the other 97% are doing on jobs that most Americans WOULD do. There were many raids on businesses across the country other than agricultural jobs and Americans lined up around the block for those jobs and I haven't heard of any mass exodus of Americans leaving those jobs after getting hired.

I agree and I will be waiting to see his link that these jobs were court ordered and people walked off.

It's also interesting that it's implied that citizens that have been incarcerated and are serving out their probation for a crime they committed are somehow worse than people that are blatantly breaking laws and act as if they are the ones being wronged. I've always been taught that owning up to your mistakes, paying the price, and moving along in a positive direction is the way to atone for your past. From my POV, illegals haven't even gotten to the first step yet.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 09:51 AM
 
951 posts, read 616,515 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Were the laws in Ga changed and I missed it? I know when the ruling came down it was discussed that possibly people on probation and parole would be of help. Could you please put up your link for people walking out on these court ordered jobs?

Georgia introduces probation farm-work progam - USATODAY.com

Quote:
"Those guys out here weren't out there 30 minutes and they got the bucket and just threw them in the air and say, 'Bonk this, I ain't with this, I can't do this,'" said Jermond Powell, a 33-year-old probationer. "They just left, took off across the field walking."
Something else from that article that is kind of funny:

Quote:
Mendez put the probationers to the test last Wednesday, assigning them to fill one truck and a Latino crew to a second truck. The Latinos picked six truckloads of cucumbers compared to one truckload and four bins for the probationers.
One of these 2 groups are hard workers. Which one?



Quote:
Will Ga really lose $1 billion this season? Please post that link too. That would be one hellufa "fine" if it's true. I'm guessing those farmers will be looking in to guest worker programs next year. Sure would be more prudent to work inside the guidelines of the law. Especially in an area such as farming, that is so heavily subsidized by TAXPAYERS.
Estimate: Immigration law could cost Ga. $1B in crop losses - Atlanta Business Chronicle

That $1 billion doesn't even include the upcoming cotton and pecan harvests...
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