U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 08-16-2011, 01:03 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 792,959 times
Reputation: 124

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
So that's your answer? Explain please.
What you said earlier, it was incorrect. Not right. Untrue.

 
Old 08-16-2011, 01:39 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,393,958 times
Reputation: 1544
So you believe we should open our doors to everyone?

And how do you propose we create enough jobs for people all over the world that want to come here? If you have a good solution to the jobs problem we have right now I'm sure there are numerous people that would be interested. How would that differentiate us from any third world country when we have too many people, not enough jobs, and a welfare system that that is overtaxed and broke?

People from Mexico come here for better pay, not because they can't find a job. If we open our doors our pay scale will drop to that of Mexico's but our CoL is much higher. It's a race to the bottom from then on. Not prosperity.

As far as the screening process, yes I'm sure the ones with a shady past will jump right on board and go through that screening process just to be denied.

Have you ever heard anyone say that if you take away the guns the only one left with guns are the criminals? That's because they are willing to operate outside the boundaries of the law. Same principle.



I think it should be the CHOICE of those that pay taxes and keep our country functioning. The majority don't want to become a third world country. Mexico is the 12 highest economy in the world. Why don't you believe that THEY should compete to become better rather than us handing it to them by taking their poor?

Have you been following the news at all to see how much it costs to create one job in this country? Jobs are subsidized, so yes, the CITIZENS DO own them.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 01:41 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,393,958 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
What you said earlier, it was incorrect. Not right. Untrue.

Please state what you are responding to and how, in your opinion it is wrong.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 01:50 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 792,959 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
Please state what you are responding to and how, in your opinion it is wrong.
When you said "job creation costs are paid by taxpayers" that's wrong. It's wrong because taxpayers don't pay those costs. Businesses do. I'm not sure how else to explain that.

If you think it's actually true, how about you explain how it's correct? I mean this game where you just blurt out whatever pops into your head and then it's suddenly my job to prove you wrong sounds fun but maybe later.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 02:01 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 792,959 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
And how do you propose we create enough jobs for people all over the world that want to come here?

THat's not my problem. I don't propose how GM should make cars, or how Apple should make computers, or how wal-mart should distribute their inventory. Business models are not my responsibility.

Quote:
People from Mexico come here for better pay, not because they can't find a job. If we open our doors our pay scale will drop to that of Mexico's but our CoL is much higher. It's a race to the bottom from then on. Not prosperity.
But you just said there are no jobs, so this doesn't seem like a big problem.

Seriously, though, you're going about this the entirely wrong way. You're looking for top-down approaches. But the economy doesn't work like that. Things work from the bottom up. I mean, what's YOUR solution to the "jobs problem"? Since you don't have one, then I guess we can just ignore YOUR position on immigration, right?

Quote:
As far as the screening process, yes I'm sure the ones with a shady past will jump right on board and go through that screening process just to be denied.

Have you ever heard anyone say that if you take away the guns the only one left with guns are the criminals? That's because they are willing to operate outside the boundaries of the law. Same principle.
RIght, that's the idea. Only the troublemakers will be operating outside the boundaries of the law in that case. ANd there won't be a huge industry of smugglers waiting to help them across the border, since the bulk of people will be able to go through the official channel.

Quote:
I think it should be the CHOICE of those that pay taxes and keep our country functioning.
OK, so if business owners who "pay taxes" want to hire people from mexico you're cool with it? Great! What's the problem then?
 
Old 08-16-2011, 02:11 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,393,958 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
When you said "job creation costs are paid by taxpayers" that's wrong. It's wrong because taxpayers don't pay those costs. Businesses do. I'm not sure how else to explain that.

If you think it's actually true, how about you explain how it's correct? I mean this game where you just blurt out whatever pops into your head and then it's suddenly my job to prove you wrong sounds fun but maybe later.

So the stimulus money wasn't taxpayer money? Wasn't that used to CREATE JOBS? At least it was supposed to....at $250,000 per.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 02:21 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 792,959 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
So the stimulus money wasn't taxpayer money? Wasn't that used to CREATE JOBS? At least it was supposed to....at $250,000 per.
That doesn't mean it went to employers to directly subsidize their job creation. It just means the government wasted $250,000 on baloney for every job that actually was created.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 02:52 PM
 
3,204 posts, read 2,393,958 times
Reputation: 1544
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
THat's not my problem. I don't propose how GM should make cars, or how Apple should make computers, or how wal-mart should distribute their inventory. Business models are not my responsibility.



But you just said there are no jobs, so this doesn't seem like a big problem.

Seriously, though, you're going about this the entirely wrong way. You're looking for top-down approaches. But the economy doesn't work like that. Things work from the bottom up. I mean, what's YOUR solution to the "jobs problem"? Since you don't have one, then I guess we can just ignore YOUR position on immigration, right?



RIght, that's the idea. Only the troublemakers will be operating outside the boundaries of the law in that case. ANd there won't be a huge industry of smugglers waiting to help them across the border, since the bulk of people will be able to go through the official channel.



OK, so if business owners who "pay taxes" want to hire people from mexico you're cool with it? Great! What's the problem then?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
That doesn't mean it went to employers to directly subsidize their job creation. It just means the government wasted $250,000 on baloney for every job that actually was created.
You don't have a solution for creating enough jobs for all the people in the world that want to come here, yet you think it's a good idea that we allow that to happen anyway. So do you have a solution for what we do with all those that can't find jobs?

I didn't suggest that just because I don't agree with you, that your position on immigration should be ignored. I'm debating with you. That is what the intended purpose of the forum is.

Asking you how you would solve the issues that would arise from what you suggest is all part of a debate.

Frankly, the smuggling issue is not a problem that the US needs to address. This problem originates in Mexico and should act as a deterrent for those wanting to come here illegally. They aren't being kidnapped...they are paying these people. They are feeding the problem by creating the market. If they come here legally they won't need to rely on organized crime.

As far as business owners, they are subsidized by taxpayers through a favorable business climate and need to be fined heavily and jailed for their actions. Simply being a taxpayer doesn't exclude you from having to live within the law. Yes, there are citizens that are criminals too.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 03:17 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 792,959 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
You don't have a solution for creating enough jobs for all the people in the world that want to come here, yet you think it's a good idea that we allow that to happen anyway. So do you have a solution for what we do with all those that can't find jobs?
Nope. I don't need one either.

Do you have a solution for what should be done with them OVER THERE?

Do you think it's ridiculous that you should have to come up with a solution for what should be done with them OVER THERE?

Quote:
I didn't suggest that just because I don't agree with you, that your position on immigration should be ignored. I'm debating with you. That is what the intended purpose of the forum is.
Wow, I didn't even say that BECAUSE YOU DON'T AGREE WITH ME was the reason you were suggesting my position should be ignored.

Quote:
Asking you how you would solve the issues that would arise from what you suggest is all part of a debate.
Dude, that situation arises NO MATTER WHAT. So where's your solution to the same problem? What's your solution for what should be done with them if you keep them penned up over there?

My solution is let everyone find their own solution and stop asking for some fake know-it-all to "solve" their problems. There, how's that?

Quote:
As far as business owners, they are subsidized by taxpayers through a favorable business climate and need to be fined heavily and jailed for their actions. Simply being a taxpayer doesn't exclude you from having to live within the law. Yes, there are citizens that are criminals too.
Holy cow. This is the ultimate circular logic, not to mention completely dodging the point.

Basically you've swtiched from some weird taxpayers pay $250k to create a job argument to "well the government lets people own businesses so therefore any restrictions the government wants to put on people are valid" argument. No sense at all. Basically under this argument, ANYTHING goes.
 
Old 08-16-2011, 03:20 PM
 
951 posts, read 618,425 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isitmeorarethingsnuts? View Post
You don't have a solution for creating enough jobs for all the people in the world that want to come here, yet you think it's a good idea that we allow that to happen anyway. So do you have a solution for what we do with all those that can't find jobs?
So is losing $1 billion in crops going to create or destroy jobs?

Quote:
Frankly, the smuggling issue is not a problem that the US needs to address. This problem originates in Mexico and should act as a deterrent for those wanting to come here illegally. They aren't being kidnapped...they are paying these people. They are feeding the problem by creating the market. If they come here legally they won't need to rely on organized crime.
If they had a way to come legally they wouldn't need to rely on organized crime. It is very very hard for a blue collar worker to come here legally.
This is what creates the market.

Quote:
As far as business owners, they are subsidized by taxpayers through a favorable business climate and need to be fined heavily and jailed for their actions. Simply being a taxpayer doesn't exclude you from having to live within the law. Yes, there are citizens that are criminals too.
lol taxpayers don't subsidize jobs. Get it through your head.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top