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Old 08-18-2011, 08:15 AM
 
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This problem could be solved the same way they solved the problem of drug addicts getting liver transplants ahead of taxpaying working people.

They rank the recipients in a "status" system. Status 1 is the first on the list in a local region - local because livers must be very fresh and are not flown from one region to another. If no one waiting is a status 1, then they check the status 2 patients and then status 3. Status is based on the health condition of the recipient.

After the Mickey Mantle outrage, alcoholics and drug addicts do not become higher up than a status 4. They could allow illegals to still be on the waiting lists but maybe never to be over a status 5 or 6 so that only if no Americans are in need, then rather than waste an organ, give it to an illegal.

Also organ transplants are done at least in Mexico, I don't now about Guatemala or Honduras, so there is no excuse for those from that country to come here, they can go back home for organ transplants.

 
Old 08-18-2011, 02:05 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,684 posts, read 31,538,108 times
Reputation: 26825
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
This problem could be solved the same way they solved the problem of drug addicts getting liver transplants ahead of taxpaying working people.

They rank the recipients in a "status" system. Status 1 is the first on the list in a local region - local because livers must be very fresh and are not flown from one region to another. If no one waiting is a status 1, then they check the status 2 patients and then status 3. Status is based on the health condition of the recipient.

After the Mickey Mantle outrage, alcoholics and drug addicts do not become higher up than a status 4. They could allow illegals to still be on the waiting lists but maybe never to be over a status 5 or 6 so that only if no Americans are in need, then rather than waste an organ, give it to an illegal.

Also organ transplants are done at least in Mexico, I don't now about Guatemala or Honduras, so there is no excuse for those from that country to come here, they can go back home for organ transplants.
Good idea.
 
Old 08-19-2011, 09:51 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,408,469 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Ok, so if NO ONE is entitled to get these at American expense and "just about no Americans support that idea" why do you care about IMMIGRATION STATUS? Why don't you want hospitals to look for ABILITY TO PAY?

I mean, yeah, immigration status might be correlated with ability to pay, but ABILITY TO PAY is even more tightly correlated with it if you know what I mean.

Conclusion: you're not actually worried about ability to pay.
Aw. Immigration status is the new code word for illegal. Next on the agenda: make it illegal to "discriminate" against immigration status so no can be deported. Better yet, make it possible for illegals to sue should anyone dare demand that they speak English or have the legal right to work in the United States.

Conclusion: you can't debate.

You are not entitled to walk across the border and demand that we give you medical care, let alone place you in front of own citizens. No country does that or should.
 
Old 08-19-2011, 10:03 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 799,017 times
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You can't answer the question?

Immigration status isn't a code word for illegal. It's a "code word" for immigration status.

Here, I'll rephrase in little words this time.



If "no one" (your words) is entitled to get these at American expense and "just about no Americans support that idea" why do you care about whether someone is illegal or not? Why don't you want hospitals to look for ability to pay?

Will you answer this question? Or will you make up some other excuse?

Oh, and where is this "illegals are demanding to be put at the front of the line in front of americans" meme coming from?
 
Old 08-19-2011, 10:07 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,408,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
You can't answer the question?

Immigration status isn't a code word for illegal. It's a "code word" for immigration status.

Here, I'll rephrase in little words this time.



If "no one" (your words) is entitled to get these at American expense and "just about no Americans support that idea" why do you care about whether someone is illegal or not? Why don't you want hospitals to look for ability to pay?

Will you answer this question? Or will you make up some other excuse?
So you support organ transplants for illegals? Yeah. Let's invite the world to get $400k operations at American expense.



Where do you get the idea that hospitals don't look for the ability to pay? And for the last time, no, the American public does not support organ transplants for illegals. We don't support them even if they can afford to pay. No foreigner should be able to waltz in here, skip the immigration lines and grab an organ that might have gone to an American.

That's not fair. I can only imagine your outrage if rich Americans went abroad to grab kidneys or hearts from poor brown people in Mexico . . .
 
Old 08-19-2011, 11:10 AM
 
1,574 posts, read 799,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
So you support organ transplants for illegals? Yeah. Let's invite the world to get $400k operations at American expense.

Nice combo goalpost shift/strawman.

Quote:
Where do you get the idea that hospitals don't look for the ability to pay? And for the last time, no, the American public does not support organ transplants for illegals. We don't support them even if they can afford to pay. No foreigner should be able to waltz in here, skip the immigration lines and grab an organ that might have gone to an American.
I got the idea from you, obviously. You're claiming

A) illegals can't pay for transplants
B) illegals are getting transplants

right?

So how are they getting them?

And what's this? You don't want them getting an organ even if they can pay for the operation? Oh, so again, you're showing the true motivation here. It's not that you actually care about the payment. You're just using that as an excuse. No, what you actually care about is WHO THEY ARE. They just aren't good enough for our superior american organs. Letting them get one would just be... wasting it.

Quote:
That's not fair. I can only imagine your outrage if rich Americans went abroad to grab kidneys or hearts from poor brown people in Mexico . . .
I'm sure, you've already shown you have a vivid imagination that isn't restrained by reality when it comes to jumping to conclusions about other people.
 
Old 08-19-2011, 01:16 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,408,469 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Nice combo goalpost shift/strawman.
Answer the question. Do you or do you not believe that illegals should be allowed to come here and get on the transplant list?

You obviously do.

Shrug.

Quote:
I got the idea from you, obviously. You're claiming

A) illegals can't pay for transplants
B) illegals are getting transplants

right?

So how are they getting them?
I am not claiming this. Benicar provided evidence of it from a reputable source. They are getting on the transplant list from stupid officials who have no problem giving them out.

Quote:
And what's this? You don't want them getting an organ even if they can pay for the operation? Oh, so again, you're showing the true motivation here. It's not that you actually care about the payment. You're just using that as an excuse. No, what you actually care about is WHO THEY ARE. They just aren't good enough for our superior american organs. Letting them get one would just be... wasting it.
Who they are? They are foreign nationals. Since when the hell are Americans supposed to be responsible for providing organ donations for the rest of the world?

This is ridiculous. You really do believe that Americans are supposed to provide everything for the entire world. Jobs, welfare, food and now incredibly expensive medical care. That's nuts.

Quote:
I'm sure, you've already shown you have a vivid imagination that isn't restrained by reality when it comes to jumping to conclusions about other people.
Said the "hyterical" pot to the sexist kettle . . .
 
Old 08-19-2011, 01:25 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 799,017 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
Who they are? They are foreign nationals. Since when the hell are Americans supposed to be responsible for providing organ donations for the rest of the world?

This is ridiculous. You really do believe that Americans are supposed to provide everything for the entire world. Jobs, welfare, food and now incredibly expensive medical care. That's nuts.

No no no, lol, no. You said EVEN IF THE CAN PAY they shouldn't be able to get these. This isn't about GIVING them anything. Quit hiding behind the "incredibly expensive" canard. This isn't about draining taxpayers. This isn't about "providing $400k operations to the entire world." This isn't about welfare.

This is about THEM getting OUR VITAL ORGANS. And, shockingly, you can't even talk about it without adding hysterical lies like "they're demanding to be put at the front of the line."
 
Old 08-19-2011, 01:33 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,408,469 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
No no no, lol, no. You said EVEN IF THE CAN PAY they shouldn't be able to get these. This isn't about GIVING them anything. Quit hiding behind the "incredibly expensive" canard. This isn't about draining taxpayers. This isn't about "providing $400k operations to the entire world." This isn't about welfare.

This is about THEM getting OUR VITAL ORGANS. And, shockingly, you can't even talk about it without adding hysterical lies like "they're demanding to be put at the front of the line."
Answer the questions.

Should foreign nationals be allowed on the transplant list? Should illegals be given access to incredibly expensive operations even though they're not supposed to be here let alone get access to our medical system for non-emergency reasons? Benicar provided evidence this is what happens. Illegals ARE being given transplants. Foreign nationals ARE being put on the transplant list sometimes at the head of the line.

Here:

Hospital Skipped Its Own Patients - Los Angeles Times

Or keep calling me a racist and I'll keep calling you a sexist. Your choice.
 
Old 08-19-2011, 01:44 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 799,017 times
Reputation: 124
Yes, keep distracting attention away from the fact that you were trying to make this about the money but you slipped up and let us all know that it's about who they are.

Yes, people born outside the US should be able to get transplants. Just like people born outside the US should be able to buy property in the US, and work here, and move here. They're human beings.

Do you have a problem with Canadians coming to the US for medical treatment? Because they do it a lot. But there's no OUTRAGE about WHITE PEOPLE coming here and CONSUMING OUR LIFESAVING MEDICAL TREATMENT. Shocking!
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