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Old 08-19-2011, 12:24 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,387,103 times
Reputation: 2345

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You can post silly graphics until the cows come home. Youíre only proving my point, which is, you can NOT support your claim that our immigration laws are racist. If you could, you would. But, we both know you canít. Youíre only making yourself look juvenile and foolish. But, that is certainly your prerogative.
He also makes himself sexist. But that's okay. It's okay to demonize women. We don't matter. We're just foolish little people who need to be told what to do by men who clearly smarter and more logical than we are.


 
Old 08-19-2011, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,892,472 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
I tell you why your question is flawed and you just repeat the question as if that's demonstrating something relevant.

Keep framing the question so narrowly so you can tell yourself there's no racism involved. If that's what it takes for you to sleep at night, go right ahead.
Come now you made the claim. I only ask you back your claim. How is that unreasonable or flawed? You do it often. If someone makes a claim you want a link or proof which is fair.
I am asking for which laws are racist and how. I am seriously asking.
I know for a fact that it is much harder for say a Thai national of questionable means to get a VISA than say a Thai national of wealth to get the same VISA. Is this racist? No but it is frustrating.
Rhymetime I am asking a serious question if you want to post it to me privately thats fine . I will keep the answer between us.
 
Old 08-19-2011, 03:47 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,949 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Come now you made the claim. I only ask you back your claim. How is that unreasonable or flawed? You do it often. If someone makes a claim you want a link or proof which is fair.
I am asking for which laws are racist and how. I am seriously asking.
I know for a fact that it is much harder for say a Thai national of questionable means to get a VISA than say a Thai national of wealth to get the same VISA. Is this racist? No but it is frustrating.
Rhymetime I am asking a serious question if you want to post it to me privately thats fine . I will keep the answer between us.
Sure, I'm up for this conversation.

You're never going to find racism looking at individual cases.

Look at the aggregate statistics. Obviously the rules aren't going to be overtly racist but the point of restriction is to keep people out and certain groups of people are much more likely to be able to get through the system than others.

Read the posts in here. Why do most people care about immigration at all?

1) competition for jobs
2) welfare etc

Now read the rationales people give for wanting to reserve these things for themselves. They don't want to share with people they view as inherently inferior. They'll never admit this upfront, of course, because (as they say) times have changed and open racism and bigotry is no longer socially acceptable. But you can read the posts and get the idea of where they're coming from. They call them "mutts" or they complain about the language or they say they bring diseases and drugs with them (funny, I've never heard anyone say that about Canadians), or they just go nuts and say crazy stuff like they're out to "steal our organs" or whatever they can think of. And they're very careful to overtly emphasize they only think bad things about the ILLEGAL ones but if you get them to talk long enough they'll show you what they're really thinking. It's happened over and over again in this forum.

The short version is that it's not just out there staring you in the face. Racists might be ignorant but they're not stupid. You gotta do a little detective work.
 
Old 08-19-2011, 04:03 PM
 
3,493 posts, read 2,387,103 times
Reputation: 2345
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
Sure, I'm up for this conversation.

You're never going to find racism looking at individual cases.

Look at the aggregate statistics. Obviously the rules aren't going to be overtly racist but the point of restriction is to keep people out and certain groups of people are much more likely to be able to get through the system than others.

Read the posts in here. Why do most people care about immigration at all?

1) competition for jobs
2) welfare etc

Now read the rationales people give for wanting to reserve these things for themselves. They don't want to share with people they view as inherently inferior. They'll never admit this upfront, of course, because (as they say) times have changed and open racism and bigotry is no longer socially acceptable. But you can read the posts and get the idea of where they're coming from. They call them "mutts" or they complain about the language or they say they bring diseases and drugs with them (funny, I've never heard anyone say that about Canadians), or they just go nuts and say crazy stuff like they're out to "steal our organs" or whatever they can think of. And they're very careful to overtly emphasize they only think bad things about the ILLEGAL ones but if you get them to talk long enough they'll show you what they're really thinking. It's happened over and over again in this forum.

The short version is that it's not just out there staring you in the face. Racists might be ignorant but they're not stupid. You gotta do a little detective work.
In other words you have nothing.

You literally have to use imaginary reasons that only exist in your own mind to justify your accusations of racism.

People are opposed to illegals for many reasons. Mostly because they a) skip the immigration lines and b) impose costs on most Americans. Most of them are high school drop outs from a single ethnic group. They earn very little, pay even less in taxes, do not speak our common language and take welfare when they have children and qualify for welfare benefits, demand interpreters and use our public services including yes, even organ transplants at 400k each.

None of that has anything to do with race.

Restriction on immigration have to exist. Every single person cannot move here. They won't fit and we cannot possibly accommodate them. Your problem is that you think Americans have no right assert that obvious fact. Because you're simply incapable of thinking about this issue in rational terms. The only thing you can do is yell racism or imply anyone who dares disagree with you is a hysterical, irrational woman.

You have no other way to defend your stance on this issue other than to resort to baseless accusations.
 
Old 08-19-2011, 04:27 PM
 
1,574 posts, read 789,949 times
Reputation: 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleanora1 View Post
In other words you have nothing.

You literally have to use imaginary reasons that only exist in your own mind to justify your accusations of racism.

People are opposed to illegals for many reasons. Mostly because they a) skip the immigration lines and b) impose costs on most Americans. Most of them are high school drop outs from a single ethnic group. They earn very little, pay even less in taxes, do not speak our common language and take welfare when they have children and qualify for welfare benefits, demand interpreters and use our public services including yes, even organ transplants at 400k each.

None of that has anything to do with race.
The fact that they're mostly "from a single ethnic group" has nothing to do with race?

Well at least we got it out in the open.

Seriously, the fact that you're still hysterically latched on to this organ thing is absolutely hilarious.

Tinman, take note! This poster here is up in arms that people "from a single ethnic group" that "don't speak our language" might be treated like human beings. It's not going to get much more obvious than this. What this poster is saying is that this group of people (who she is CHOOSING to defining largely by ethnic and language criteria) should be treated differently than respectable people. This poster is justifying this position with various derogatory remarks (they're dropouts, welfare scammers, etc).


Quote:
Restriction on immigration have to exist. Every single person cannot move here. They won't fit and we cannot possibly accommodate them. Your problem is that you think Americans have no right assert that obvious fact. Because you're simply incapable of thinking about this issue in rational terms. The only thing you can do is yell racism or imply anyone who dares disagree with you is a hysterical, irrational woman.
Every single person doesn't WANT to move here. BUt even if they did, there are natural processes that control such movements. Not everyone in the US is moving to Manhattan, even though there's no legal restriction preventing current US residents from doing so. Markets adjust for changes in both supply and demand. As people move, markets adjust. Eventually if there really are "too many" people then the market would send that signal via prices, just like it does in all other cases. The "we don't have room" boogeyman is just another scare tactic. The US is, relative to most industrialized nations, very, very sparsely populated.

World Urban Population Density by Country & Area

Every single "high income" nation on that list has HIGHER population density than the US. And that's just comparing urban areas! There is PLENTY of room.

Quote:
You have no other way to defend your stance on this issue other than to resort to baseless accusations.
Of course, my allegations have a real basis (they're based on the words you chose to type) whereas your posts are full of ad hominems such as "twit" (and much worse). You really, really don't want to get into this discussion, you'll lose, and lose badly.
 
Old 08-19-2011, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,014,480 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
...I know for a fact that it is much harder for say a Thai national of questionable means to get a VISA than say a Thai national of wealth to get the same VISA...
The same VISA of what type? You're not defining the conditions of your statement. The policies are reversed for your scenario if it is a VISA by asylum.
 
Old 08-20-2011, 05:25 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,892,472 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMMuseum View Post
The same VISA of what type? You're not defining the conditions of your statement. The policies are reversed for your scenario if it is a VISA by asylum.
Im talking in general. For example a tourist VISA. I know for a fact that a Thai person who doesnt own a home or make a good living as a slim chance of getting a tourist VISA. A thai national who owns a home and has a good job a much better chance. I use Thai as an example because I know quite a few Thai's.
 
Old 08-20-2011, 10:53 AM
 
Location: N Atlanta
4,597 posts, read 3,223,702 times
Reputation: 2310
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhymetime View Post
The fact that they're mostly "from a single ethnic group" has nothing to do with race?

Nope, the reason they are from a single ethnic group has to do solely with geographic proximity to the U.S.

Tinman, take note! This poster here is up in arms that people "from a single ethnic group" that "don't speak our language" might be treated like human beings. It's not going to get much more obvious than this. What this poster is saying is that this group of people (who she is CHOOSING to defining largely by ethnic and language criteria) should be treated differently than respectable people. This poster is justifying this position with various derogatory remarks (they're dropouts, welfare scammers, etc).

Who is not treating these illegal immigrants as respectable people ? The point is that they need to follow the immigration rules just like everyone else that wants to move here.


Every single person doesn't WANT to move here. BUt even if they did, there are natural processes that control such movements. Not everyone in the US is moving to Manhattan, even though there's no legal restriction preventing current US residents from doing so. Markets adjust for changes in both supply and demand. As people move, markets adjust. Eventually if there really are "too many" people then the market would send that signal via prices, just like it does in all other cases. The "we don't have room" boogeyman is just another scare tactic. The US is, relative to most industrialized nations, very, very sparsely populated.

World Urban Population Density by Country & Area

Every single "high income" nation on that list has HIGHER population density than the US. And that's just comparing urban areas! There is PLENTY of room.

Plenty of room for what ... millions of uneducated people that want to move here because they can't make it in their countries. Most people who do well in the countries that make up this "ethnic group" do not want to move here. So we're supposed to take the dregs of their societies and build ours ? Sure, we can take that road, but IMO, the U.S. will sink into the "third world country" quicksand fairly rapidly.

And why should these folks get to "leapfrog" the immigration lines, when the Indian doctor or Swedish engineer who applied according to the rules has to wait.


So, we as a nation with a multi-trillion dollar deficit, have the money to support these illegal immigrants with health care, social programs, etc when we can't even take care of the citizens who live here now ?
Had to jump in ... comment in blue.
 
Old 08-20-2011, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,821,083 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftee View Post
Had to jump in ... comment in blue.
You jumped in, and nailed it.
 
Old 08-20-2011, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,014,480 times
Reputation: 601
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Im talking in general. For example a tourist VISA. I know for a fact that a Thai person who doesnt own a home or make a good living as a slim chance of getting a tourist VISA. A thai national who owns a home and has a good job a much better chance. I use Thai as an example because I know quite a few Thai's.
So, an example that is not actually linked to immigration? You can use whichever countries (except those on the Visa Waiver Program) for an example about a tourist VISA. There is always the criteria that the Consular officer wants to see the intent is not to remain (improperly immigrate) to the United States while on a tourist VISA.

Was this example offered because of a specific Thai National attempting to come here?...
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